we choose to reach out to cindy karlsen to further an investigation. >> that's when we started working kicks into high gear. police set up undercover officers and cindy agrees to wear a wire to meet with karl to try and elicit a confession. >> so right now i need to -- >> i know, but i'm just telling you -- >> i'm going to -- >> no. >> you just had to pump it? >> because it's so wobbly, you know. because the only thing that was touching the ground was just the back two wheels. >> any dessert? >> no. >> i'll have more coffee, thank you. >> sure. so then what happened? >> then -- >> what, did he make a noise? >> i mean, you'd think. >> it's not clear cut, it's not definitive. >> by no means did we think this was a slam dunk. >> at that point, we knew we were going to be bringing him in for an interview. >> investigators questioning karl for hours about his son levi's death. >> did you tell cindy, when she asked you if you pushed the car over on levi, did you push hard, do you remember telling her, it pushed easy? >> i don't remember ever -- >> could you have said that? >> if it is, then