and their top cindi thomas whose name hasn't been mentioned a lot in the hearings. they all answered to her and had different managers and all reported to cindi thomas. and cindi thomas' boss was in each one of these interviews that the inspector general conducted. and the law makers raised the point, do you think that might have been chilling for the line employees and for you to be asking, who ordered you to do this? when you have the bosses boss's boss sitting there maybe they didn't want to answer. >> just pointing over here? the truth is here, that we know that the danger for the administration and the danger for president obama and the danger for his team lies in the moment that this starts to flow back up the organizational chart. it goes back up the chart. it is been to shove it down to the lowest rung and say they are rogue agents and peons and were wrong headed and mistaken. they hold the key and they have the name and they will not give the name until two things occurred. one thing is they are not afraid and that person has been taken out of office and pu

they have put a chart totaling involved in this and they show a woman named cindy thomas.relationship between send di thomas and carter hull? >> she would have been a different office. she was overseeing exempt organizations. she answered to holly poz who then answered to lois lerner. these lawyers are in washington, d.c. and they provide guidance, oversight, direction to the cincinnati office. my sources in cincinnati say they are, employees in the cincinnati office are incredibly upset with cindy thomas which is the top woman in cincinnati for not defending them against the claims of people like lois lerner and like former commissioner doug shulman and steven miller that there were rogue agents in cincinnati. >> megyn: they know they weren't rogue and they were doing what they were told to do. and you reference the house oversight committee, one woman came out and said, i was essentially a front person. i had no autonomy to act on applications without carter hull's influence or input. she puts it squarely on him. the folks are being thrown under the bus don't appear to b