they've been long used in cipa. they are things such as stipulation, a summary that is not classified or secret, et cetera. the criteria on which he makes a decision as to whether it is a state secret is whether or not significant harm is reasonably likely to occur, and i think that's one which is in line with some of what i would consider the best judging in the past. the government does have the burden of proving of the likelihood of occurrence and this i think it's very important. i'll save one of the two issues. but that can be legitimating be discussed here today. that the court should weigh the testimony from government experts in the same manner it does and along with any other expert testimony. i think that's very important that the judge makes an independent judgment. he looks at the testimony of the government, evaluates it the way that we learn -- have learned to evaluate expert testimony, namely, the qualifications of the expert, the experience of the expert, the cohesiveness of the testimony and those a