>> well, don, pat cipollone is the ultimate insider.nd i think we saw was involved in, present for, witness for so many of the key conversations. and generally speaking, his roles as a voice of reason, telling them no, you can't take over the justice department. no, you can't get on board with us fake elector scheme. no, john eastman's theories are not legal, they're not constitutional. and i think one of the questions here, and i think abby philip was just alluding to this, is how hard is doj going to push back against these executive privilege claims? because we think to pat cipollone's videotape deposition testimony, which we saw some of the hearings, there are these moments where he was asked what was your conversation with donald trump, pat cipollone would sort of pause, turned his lawyer again in michael perot, who are used to work for ideology, and we just say privilege. and he would not answer. so, is the og willing to go to court to force him to give those answers? or are they willing, are they going to be able to negotiate som

pat cipollone would pause, turned to his lawyer, a guy who i used to work with the doj, and cipollone would say, privilege. he would not answer. so, is doj willing to go to court to force them to give those answers, or are they will going to be able to negotiate some point, where they agree on what cipollone will and will give them? if they go to the courts, a, that will be a high-stakes battle, and can take quite a while. i can take months. >> elliott, this does escalate. this takes it to a whole new level. if you have the former white house counsel being subpoenaed, this really ratchets things up. >> yeah. there's no question about it. when we add this to what we already know about the committee, they are speaking with him. this is a next level up from mark sure, from greg jacob. this is the white house counsel. he is an older rooms for all the big meetings. so, yes, this is another sign of just how serious and how focused the doj is not just on the white house, but the interest income of the trump white house >> all right. thank you very much. i appreciate that, elliott. again, abc

cipollone to come forward and testify, he did, mr. cipollone's testimony met our expectations, we will save, for our next hearing, president trump's behavior during the violence of january 6th, today's hearing will take us from december 14th, 2020, when the electoral college met and certified the results of the 2020 presidential election, up through the morning of january 6th. you will see a certain segments of pat cipollone's testimony today, we will also see, today, how president trump summoned a mob to washington and how the president stolen election lies provoked that mob to attack the capital. and, we will hear of a man who was induced by president trump's lies to come to washington and join the mob, and how that decision has changed his life. today's hearing is our seventh we have covered significant ground over the past several weeks and we have also seen a change in how witnesses and lawyers in the trump orbit approach this committee. initially, their strategy in some cases appeared to be to deny and delay, today there appears

if pat cipollone turned a hypothetical and said, sir, is that illegal?you're talking about potentially committing a crime? >> he can argue to this, but i think he's on a losing side of this to a legal analyst point of view. first of all, you've got a number of court decisions against him. nixon, the supreme court said that this generalized assertion of executive privilege going to fail in front of a need in a criminal investigation. second of all, bruce lindsey tried to assert executive privilege, and the d.c. court of appeals knocked that down. and lastly we have the most recent suggesting in the civil context there's already a preponderance of evidence there may have been a crime committed. so there's the crime fraud exception. so i think all those things weigh against the privilege arguments, but it certainly can be a blame tactic. and overall i'd say one bright piece of news for cipollone in this is that doj does not subpoena targets. that's something they won't do. they don't just bring you in front of the grand jury. so it sounds like he has throug

you see that pat cipollone is essential to doj getting the full picture here. why is that?well, he's in all the rooms that matter. we learned from pat cipollone's own testimony in front of the committee and the testimony of others that essentially every time donald trump was pitched on one of these ridiculous ideas, let's seize voting machines, let's pressure the vice president to throw out electoral votes, pat cipollone is in the room. and generally speaking, he's pushing back, explaining to donald trump why we can't do that, why there is no evidence of fraud, why we can't lean on the vice president. so he's going to be a crucial witness. and this shows me that there's been a real change in the focus of doj's investigation. just in the last couple of weeks we've learned that doj was inside the white house. they were speaking to key staffers for vice president mike pence, and now we're talking about the white house counsel. so this is a big change in the investigation. >> the fact that it's cipollone, trump's white house counsel, does this -- does it confirm the justice dep

we'll go to the congresswoman whenever she needs to speak. >> cipollone is indicative of many people in the trump administration in that, they finally got to a point where there's a line they wouldn't cross. but they crossed an awful lot of lines before that. he was one of the trump enabler, as one of the trump defenders, and we saw that during the impeachment trial when he told the senate there was no evidence of print quote print cuoco was being discussed. that's his history. at the same time, he wouldn't go along with it and insurrection against the government, and i think sure being brought in placed under oath by the fbi, he's going to tell them the truth and in this case it's hard to imagine if there were any kind of declassification order at the white house counsel would be unaware of. so the testimony will be very important to the government's case. >> so the new york times is reporting that donald trump told several aides about these documents, that they belonged to him, not the government. isn't that essentially a confession? if he did indeed say that? >> it is certainly a

cipollone was interviewed. that means that attorney general merrick garland definitely had the information from the fbi interview when patrick philbin which was conducted in the spring all the attorney general was considering to seek a search warrant for donald trump's home. the wall street journal said more like deliberated for weeks over whether to approve the application for a warrant to search former president donald trump's florida home, people familiar with the matter said. the decision had been the subject of weeks of meetings between senior justice department and fbi officials. now that we know that deputy white house counsel patrick philbin definitely spoke with the fbi during that period when merrick garland was considering a search warrant, and the white house counsel pat cipollone might also have spoken to the fbi during that same period, it strengthens our understanding of why attorney general merrick garland appeared so very confident when he said last week that the decision to seek the search war

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what is this signaling to you that cipollone has been subpoenaed? what does that tell you about where doj is going here? >> well, i don't -- again, i don't know this -- you guys reported it, i'm sure it's true. i haven't heard this from the committee's perspective just generally i'll say this is probably bad for president -- former president trump. this is -- if he goes in front of the grand jury, it shows that this is more than, you know, what did john eastman do, the attorney that basically came up with that crazy scheme to overturn the election, and it probably is a very deep interest on what the president did. i think in terms of their negotiations, obviously the justice department knows better what they can in essence get around when it comes to saying executive privilege. and so i hope they, you know, go at that judiciously. i hope pat cipollone actually just tells the truth. i have no doubt he hasn't. but there is no reason to protect particularly criminal behavior, what could potentially be criminal behavior behind executive privilege. so we

cipollone and philbin were trump's designated to deal with the archives. it was the archives that first raised the issue of missing documents and refred it to the doj. so cipollone and philbin were of interest because of their interaction with the archives and they might have had insight on what was taken to mar-a-lago. this comes as the court fight for even more information about the search is looming. the legal fight to release more information on last week's mar-a-lago search is coming to a cross roads. the justice department is seeking to keep secret certain details prosecutors say would otherwise reveal highly sensitive information about witnesses, specific investigative techniques, and it would serve as a road map to the government's ongoing investigation. the judge announcing today he will hear arguments thursday and decide whether to release those details. all part of an affidavit that lays out why investigators believed they had probable cause to obtain this search warrant to search trump's mar-a-lago estate and take away classified documents. cnn

the department of justice is much better situated to litigate the privileges that cipollone seemed to before the january six committee. you do not have attorney client privilege or executive privilege if you are having conversations related to misconduct or crime or fraud. there is a good argument to be had that many of cipollone's relevant conversations with donald trump about his efforts to overturn the election were not kosher, so to speak. and so the department of justice could press cipollone to give more information than give more information then with the january six committee did, and if they refuses, they can go to court and they can litigate this where cipollone would have to tell the court what -- he was using and wet documents. the court would decide whether or not there would -- be to those privileges. remember, executive privilege must be claimed and asserted by the president, not by the person who was the president spoke to. so we are going to have to have a formal assertion of executive privilege by donald trump, which then biden will rule on before ultimately the depa

we're told cipollone invoked executive privilege many times.e video his reluctance to describe any specific conversations with donald trump. can the grand jury force him to? >> not in connection with the testimony he'll give in realtime. there's two things perhaps going on. one is it's possible that the justice department through sip loan cipollone can convince them their claim of executive privilege or other privilege is too broad and having looked at the testimony he gave before the january 6th committee, winnow it down a little bit if they're reasonable people and will negotiate. the second thing is more likely, that cipollone and others will assert the same executive and other privileges, but it will be teed up in a more direct way for the justice department, and the justice department will have to fight it out in court. it's a very different thing to fight between the justice department and the witness versus the january 6th committee and the witness as we've seen before. >> we've heard last week and the week before about u.s. secret servi

cipollone to testify as a witness.o be hearing evidence in testimony -- one is looking at the scheme of some of mr. trump's lawyers advisers to several slates of electors who would falsely claimed that mr. trump was the actual winner of the election, and another focused on the events of january six. so pat cipollone would likely have information that's relevant for both of those grand jury's. in your view to think this signals that other folks even could be called and subpoenaed and because they have the same type of information that could help investigators fill in the holes of what we know about what happened leading to january six? >> zerlina, this is not the end of the line for subpoenas they're not going to stop at pat cipollone. and the reason it's very important and it's important that you distinguish between a j six committee testimonial appearance and a grand jury testimonial appearances because all testimony is not created equal. we all saw in the public hearings pat cipollone invoke executive privilege. he k

what is he going to say about cipollone being subpoenaed by a grand jury? we will be getting that. >>> first on cnn, the defense department reportedly deleted a potential treasure trove of texts from key witnesses in the trump administration surrounding the january 6th unsur recs. this follows reports of missing texts from key trump officials at the department of homeland security and in the secret service, all surrounding the capitol riot. joining me now to dig into all of this is lance olinoff. lance, great to have you here. we have a lot of questions, particularly just about the technological know-how of this. these deleted texts, these alleged wiped machines occurred after freedom of information act requests were put in place. that raises all sorts of questions about the shear number of people who were in pivotal positions on january 6th who seemed to have abided not by the law. what can you tell us about the technology behind this? once a cellphone has been wiped, are those texts gone forever? >> no, not necessarily. i mean, the thing is with any sort

jeff, just how bad could testimony from pat cipollone and pat philbin, how bad could that be for the >> one thing we learned from cassidy hutchinson's testimony and at least part of cipollone's testimony himself is that no one in the white house was closer to the president on the subject of what was appropriate to do in the period on january 6th and leading up to it, the fake electors scheme, the insurrection at the capitol. so if cipollone actually is forced to testify about his conversations with trump, then it could be very bad. but legally, that's going to be a tough road for the justice department to hoe. >> shan, philbin and cipollone both witnessed trump's actions in the final days of his presidency as jeff alluded to there. they were right there in the thick of it. how essential could their information be to this investigation? >> oh, i agree with jeff. it's very, very critical. i mean the justice department is a little bit late to the dance here. but the good news is they founding the correct dance hall. so these are the right people, these are the right people to be talking

cipollone opposed that plan. he told the january 6th committee some of trump's advisors even proposed seizing voting machines. >> why was this on -- on a broader scale, a bad idea for the country? >> to have the federal gvernment seize voting machines? that's a terrible idea. that's not how we do things in the united states. >> reporter: cipollone has already testified before the january 6th committee on a range of topics for more than seven hours. though he frequently invoked executive privilege. it's unclear how much he would do that in front of a grand jury. linsey? >> pierre, thank you. >>> one more headline from the justice department to note tonight. today, the doj filed a civil lawsuit against peter navarro. he's accused of violating the presidential records act, allegedly using a private email account for official messages that should have been preserved. navarro is already under criminal indictment for defying a subpoena from the january 6th committee. >>> news tonight about a major error possibly effect

a source says a federal grand jury has subpoenaed pat cipollone but now, we are learning that the justice department is expanding its probe. katelyn collins is breaking the story. you are learning about another person in the trump white house is being subpoenaed? >> it's not just any person it's the number 2 lawyer in the trump white house at the end of the administration, his name is patrick philbin, the deputy white house counsel, so working alongside pat cipollone, they both now have been subpoenaed for both documents and testimony in this federal criminal probe conducted by the us attorney's office in d.c., the justice department and the fbi. when you take this together, this is aggressive grand jury activity from the justice department and federal prosecutors as they are trying to lock down information about what was happening around the president inside the trump administration, up to and on january 6th, in addition to them, we also know this grand jury has already spoken to two very top advisors in the vice president's office as well, who were in key meetings with donald trump. tho

obviously cipollone and philbin know a lot. they were trump's point men for dealing with the national archives. investigators, of course, asked questions about how 15 boxes of teeshls ended up at mar-a-lago even after, even after they said they returned everything. team trump did. according to "the new york times" philbin had been working to return all the documents since the national archives realized any of them were missing. it was trump, though, who resisted. several advisers telling "the times" that trump would say, quote, it's not theirs, it's mine. we know from the warrant and the receipt of what the fbi took from mar-a-lago that they did find highly classified, in fact, some with the most highly classified designation, at mar-a-lago. it's significant the two are involved in the doj probe into the mar-a-lago documents. this comes in addition to the fact that they have been subpoenaed by a federal grand jury, again doj investigation, about the january 6th attack. cipollone and philbin have also testified behind closed doo

and cnn source says that cipollone and his attorneys are in discussions about this appearance and how to deal with executive privilege issues. here is more from legal analyst elie honig. >> pat cipollone is the ultimate insider and i think that we've seen that he was involved in or present for or a witness for so many of the key conversations and generally speaking his role was as a voice of reason telling them, no, you can't take over the justice department. no, you can't get on board with this fake elector scheme, no, john eastman's theories are not constitutional. if we think to pat cipollone's videotaped deposition testimony which we saw in some of the hearings, there were moments where he was asked what was your conversation with donald cipol attorney and say privileged and he would not answer. so is doj willing to go to courts to force him to give those answers or are they going to be able to negotiate some sort of point where they agree on what cipollone will and won't give them. if they go to the courts, that will be a very high stakes battle and that could take months. and th

they are not asking pat cipollone about his election work, they're asking pat cipollone about donald trump. there's no question about that. you are absolutely right. i do just want to make clear to people watching that this is why we make clear what we know and what we don't know. >> exactly. and that's important. >> important clarifications and also i think reflecting your different roles. >> right. >> you're a journalist, you are expressing your experience as a former federal prosecutor and looking into this circumstance. i want to take the whole theme of conspiracies and depositions and digital evidence and bring it to alex jones because there was a bombshell revelation in his trial yesterday regarding the fact that two years of his text messages on his phone are now in possession of the lawyers on the other side and there's some indication or expectation that the january 6th committee will ask for them. given the centrality of alex jones' role in the january 6th insurrection, his contacts with people in the orbit of trump at the very least, even the oath keepers, maggie, what's y

that is something that could bubble up with cipollone as well.nd if we remember back at that house select committee hearing what we've heard of cipollone saying before is that the key thing he had said was that trump was the only person in the white house who didn't want to tell rioters to leave the capitol on january 6th. the house select committee made a very big deal about this, but even when cipollone was testifying to that at the house select committee he was very hesitant to say exactly what trump said and even to name trump in that circumstance because he kept citing executive privilege. so this could be something that brings us to another court fight, but it really is an aggressive step by investigators to want to bring him into the grand jury and lock down his testimony. >> it was clear that unburdened by what he perceived was that executive privilege he would have talked about it so he will have a lot to say there. thank you so much for the great reporting. >>> first on cnn, court filings show the department of defense wiped the phones

cipollone -- we know what they think about this. we know they think it was abhorrent.y think it was a transgression of his constitutional duties. if they can be made to talk, as opposed to eastman and giuliani, what's gonna come out is going to be much more damage. it's possible, we've been thinking, i've been thinking. they need to turn someone big like meadows you can actually imagine they're putting together a solid case against trump on [inaudible] thinking all, we'll break it down, coming up next. down, coming up next. and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three ps. what are the three ps? the three ps of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price. a price you can afford, a price that can't increase, and a price that fits your budget. i'm 54, what's my price? you can get coverage for $9.95 a month. i'm 65 and take medications. what's my price? also $9.95 a month. i just turned 80, what's my price? $9.95 a month for you too. if you're age 50 to 85, call now about the #1 most popular whole life insurance plan available th

cipollone and philbin were in the white house counsel office.itself and philbin was a deputy to him. after the presidency they became liaisons to donald trump to the national archives dealing with his presidential records. whenever this was happening, this was around the time earlier this year where the investigation was really robust, there were a lot of things that investigators were doing. they were interviewing witnesses such as them, they were subpoenaing the documents to try to get them back. "the new york times" has said that philbin and cipollone were trying to help get those documents retrieved for the national archives. we also know from "the new york times" reporting which first broke this story that the justice department was subpoenaing surveillance footage and on that surveillance footage at mar-a-lago saw something that concerned them that then precipitated this search ultimately this month. all of this put together, all of this, would be outlined in that secret affidavit that is in the court record that backed up the probable cau

pat cipollone, trump's white house counsel subpoenaed by a grand jury. what he knows and how his shield of executive privilege may not protect him any longer. new reporting on how the rnc is teaming up with stop the steal advocates at polling locations. all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after this. don't go anywhere. house" continues after this don't go anywhere. ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. ♪ ♪ the unknown is not empty. it's a storm that crashes, and consumes, replacing thought with worry. but one thing can calm uncertainty. an answer. uncovered through exploration, teamwork, and innovation. an answer that leads to even more answers. mayo clinic. you know where to go. if you're turning 65 soon or over 65 and planning to retire... now's the time to learn more about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare and get help protecting

and that pat cipollone according to the white house lawyer, according to the archives lawyer, pat cipolloneed repeatedly for the material to be returned and a ad not been returned. they asked again in may 2021, please return to material, in fact, they were almost begging. they set besides the boxes, they noticed several other high-profile items that had not been returned. former president trump correspondence with kim jong-un, the north korean dictator. his correspondence with former president obama had not been returned, even though they discussed a return for that. it really needed all these things back. wihat that shows is that long before the raid happened on mar-a-lago, the national archives and former president trump's lawyers were concerned that he had not given the materials back that he was supposed to return. >> just to be clear, based on the reporting, white house counsel pat cipollone and the national archives were both in agreement that records kept in the white house residence were supposed to be turned over, but they weren't, is that correct? >> according to the email that we

cnn has confirmed the fbi spoke to both pat cipollone and patrick philbin earlier this year. cipollone and philbin were top lawyers in the white house but when the administration ended they became among the central people appointed to handle trump's interactions with the national archives and the work of his administration when they needed to turn over federal records that were no longer his since he became a private citizen. in the spring, the criminal investigation became very active leading to fbi interviews just like these ones of cipollone and philbin and others and investigators were subpoenaing to get back the presidential records and we now know that they were subpoenaing surveillance videos of mar-a-lago, too. the "new york times" reported that something on the surveillance footage around a storage room at mar-a-lago caught investigators' attention, even alarmed them. so all of this new information, this is all becoming part of the investigative work that then led the justice department to go into court and ask to be able to do that unprecedented search last week and

first on cipollone, elliott, are there differences on what cipollone will be compelled to discuss to a federal grand jury that he refused to discuss with the january 6th committee? >> yes and no. he's still going to have both attorney/client privilege and executive privilege. attorney/client privilege the privilege that exists between a lawyer and his client, and executive privilege between senior white house staffs and the president. the difference is as caitlyn's reporting just last week noted, the justice department is preparing to sue over these privilege questions. they might actually go to the mat on this and compel him to testify in some of these areas. >> there's the point that this has come up before in the clinton investigation in which his lawyer tried not to answer questions, was compelled by d.c. circuit court. >> right. >> is that -- has it not already been decided then, or do you have to go through it again? >> to some extent, that was a civil investigation. we're talking about a criminal one here. at the end of the day, courts generally look very favorably on the powe

even in the course of their hearings, pat cipollone did come and testify. do you think there are other folks that are around the president that we may not even know about that may come up in headlines because they've been subpoenaed for the grand jury? >> i think that is a safe assumption. i think if marc short, chief of staff for mike pence and the white house counsel is before the grand jury, there must be other dozens of other top white house officials who've been subpoenaed that we just don't know about. i think it's interesting with pat cipollone, the white house declined to waive executive privilege when he went to testify. now that he's part of a criminal investigation, i think it's safe to assume that the white house counsel's office will waive privilege in this instance. and if that's the case, then pat cipollone will have a blank slate to talk about anything in respect to trump and everything that went on in the west wing on january six. so i think this investigation is really heating up. >> so fascinating, this breaking news because i want to rem

pat cipollone, former trump white house counsel, subpoenaed. >>> alex jones at his defamation trial admitting the sandy hook massacre was 100% real, after previously suggesting it was a hoax and the stunning moment on the stand when jones was told his legal team accidentally sent his text messages to the other side's lawyers >>> the alert tonight on surging credit card debt what experts say you should do about it right now. >>> and remembering one of the most famous voices in baseball >> announcer: this is "nbc nightly news" with lester holt >>> good evening, everyone abortion rights advocates are savoring a significant and rare post-roe v. wade victory tonight. not in a statehouse but at the ballot box in kansas where voters upended assumptions, defeating by a wide margin a constitutional amendment that would have opened the door to a ban on abortions in kansas. the mechanics of the victory mustering an unexpectedly large voter turnout in the mostly red state, quickly becoming a case study for democrats and republicans as they weigh the potential impact of abortion as an animating issue in t

he work in the white house counsel office under pat cipollone who has also been subpoenaed. philbin did not immediately respond to cnn's request for comment. but let's bring in a state attorney for palm 3w5beach coun. where is this investigation potentially headed? >> good morning, erica. i think this provides further evidence that the department of justice is investigating donald trump. the doj clearly wants to learn what trump said and did on and about january 6. remember, they already interviewed marc short and greg jacob and now they want the two pats. last week we had reports that do skrchlt was trying to block the claims of executive privilege the reason why is to get at trump's communications. why do you want to get to trump's communications? not so you can indict rudy giuliani, although that may happen, but to investigate the former president. also to put water on this, it means that an indictment of donald trump is not imminent. because when you litigate issues of executive privilege, that normally comes at the beginning of an investigation rather than the end. >> h

when we reached out to cipollone, a spokeswoman for the lawyer declined to comment, so we don't know the story. but we know according to that written record from the top lawyer for the national archives, pat cipollone had agreed that those boxes should be returned to the government before former president trump left for florida. >> is it clear why they weren't turned over? >> it is not. i mean that has been one of the lasting mysteries of this entire ordeal is trying to figure out why former president trump wanted to keep all these materials. he's told some confidants that the materials were his, they didn't belong to the government, and that he rightfully deserved possession of them. other folks say some of the records he wanted to show. he wanted to show to friends and club members. we don't know precisely, but we do know among his advisers, his lawyers, there's kind of a quizzical notion even after all of these efforts to give them back, why didn't he give them back? >> what's remarkable about this story is that it's just another example and a very early example of the national ar

pat cipollone has been subpoenaed by the federal grand jury investigating attempts to overturn the 2020 election. they are in discussions about his appearance before that panel including how to handle executive privilege issues. let's bring in areva martin. when it comes to executive privilege, i think as we talk about what these conversations could be between pat cipollone's attorneys and the doj, that grand jury, i should say, what is covered by executive privilege? just remind us here. what conversations could potentially be covered. >> what we know is that pat cipollone and others have claimed executive privilege to allow them basically to avoid answering questions about conver conversations, private conversations they claim they had with donald trump leading up to and including on january 6. we know with respect to the january 6 committee that pat cipollone, although he appeared before that committee, that he used executive privilege oftentimes to avoid answering specific questions. and this is going to test, quite frankly, whether that privilege holds now that we know that there i

cipollone will certainly pursue. that in the end of the day, he appears to be to be somebody who is going to answer the questions. he's just going to, you know, make sure it's clear that he's compelled to give that testimony rather than voluntarily giving the clients his testimony. >> pattern we've seen before. thank you so much. >>> still ahead, i'll speak live with tim cane about his bipartisan proposal to codify abortion rights into federal law. details on hau that can work. also, whether it can pass. plus, house speaker nancy pelosi on her way to south korea right now after her visit to taiwan that sparked outrage from china. but some bipartisan support from home. what did it accomplish? and later, a community grocery store destroyed. just one of the signs of the daunting recovery efforts in kentucky. we're going to take you there live. people are now just facing oppressive heat as they try to clean up. if you wake up thinking about the market and want to make the right moves fast... get decisionon tech from fide

we also know, you know, he is in that white house counsel's role with pat cipollone. they are extremely high ranking people, well respected people inside the white house, giving advice and so that's the sort of thing that the prosecutors are probably looking to nail down, both replicating what they said to the house and also fleshing out other things we weren't willing to say to the house, potentially things they claimed executive privilege on, trump claimed executive privilege on and we know the justice department may be trying to line up to get a court to say, no, we should have access to that. >> just a month ago all the talk was what is the doj up to and now there is something going on at the justice department. cnn also learned the secret service has now temporarily -- or may disable text messaging on employee cell phones as it faces these ongoing deep questions about what happened to all the text messages surrounding january 6th. what is the importance of that? >> it appears to be a reaction to all of this interest now in what happened to their text messages, bo

melissa, let's start with you what does this cipollone on cipollone subpoena really signal about the department's investigation, is this a turning point towards holding the folks accountable? >> i think it's a very big development, simone. i think it's important for a number of reasons. pat cipollone famously pleaded executive privilege in a attorney-client privilege when testimony -- in the district of columbia, the courts have held that those privileges do not necessarily hold sway in situations involving a criminal investigation. so, he might be required to provide provide more testimony than -- and not could be potentially enormous in terms of gathering evidence to bring together this case against the trump inner circle. much has been made, the attorney general's deliberations and the methodical approach to all of this. this is part of it, the grand jury subpoena here could actually yield considerable fruit. >> i also think it's important for folks to know, everybody in the moment can't claim executive privilege. the current president of the united states, is where executive priv

nick, pat cipollone and pat philbin interviewed. would that just be standard procedure, an investigation like that, given they were the ones representing the white house to the national archives? >> oh, absolutely. i think they would play prominently in the affidavit in support of the search warrant. they know what the procedures were. they know what trump was told. they know what other government employees in the white house were told. they set up the procedures. that is absolutely critical in terms of setting up the probable cause that was needed in that affidavit. >> but, nick, how free as attorneys would they be to talk to the fbi? >> well, i guess the question is whether or not they felt constrained not to reveal their conversations with donald trump because of executive privilege. on the other hand, i don't really think executive privilege applies here. what the government would really be interested in is not so much what trump said but what the lawyers said to donald trump. that is, what instructions was he given with respect

that testimony included how he wanted then president trump to do more to end the riot, cipollone may also be able to provide insight on any action trump took to support fake electors. >>> a government watch dog says the pentagon deleted text messages from several trump administration officials after the attack on the capitol. the data was reportedly deleted from the cell phones of former acting defense secretary chris miller, his chief of staff and the former army secretary. the pentagon claims its standard operating procedure to erase or wipe the phones but abc's jonathan karl says the law says otherwise. >> reporter: there is a federal law called the federal records act, which requires federal employees to preserve their communications, which are then stored in the national archives. it is unclear how text messages on government issued cell phones would not be included in that. >> the watchdog says it requested the text messages within days of the january 6th riot. >>> the other big story this morning, speaker nancy pelosi defying china meeting with the leaders of taiwan overnight

so he really bolsters cipollone in an important way, and you're right. they're there for everything. this is the sort of modern-day equivalent of the white house tapes and everything that's important and cipollone heard, philbin heard and from what we can surprise based on what we heard to date, they could bury the former president. >> i want to stay with you for a moment because politico has great reporting on where the doj probe is headed and how the executive privilege claims could possibly go. >> donald trump's camp has yet to say whether he'll disrupt the justice department's grand jury investigation into attempts to overturn the 2020 election, but if he does, it could be a very short fight. a series of court rulings to stymie the house january 6th select committee investigating the january 6, 2021 attack on the capitol sharply rejected trump's bid to wield the power as a former president. we know, folks, that a few of the january 6th committee witnesses had negotiated their terms of testimony when it came to trump, but what do you think should the

even though the archives says that the former white house counsel pat cipollone determined they shouldmit redactions for the mar-a-lago before the federal release. joining me, george conway and john dean the form er nixon whie house counsel. we'll talk about that and we're also going to talk about things that had to do with other reports. okay? george, this email was sent roughly 100 days after trump left office and it illustrates how long the archives were trying to get these documents before the fbi search. there is a list up on the screen now. >> yeah, it's completely incredible how much he basically stiff armed trump stiff armed these documents. so far, he has not articulated and none of his lawyers or representatives articulated a cohaerent defense to the charge he stole these documents and this just -- this just enhances that because it just shows that from the very beginning, his own people, pat cipollone told him or believed these documents had to go back. no question they had to go back and yet, he took more requests, more meetings, a search subpoena and a search warrant that

cnn has learned the agency interviewed former white house counsel pat cipollone and his deputy patrickin earlier this year as part of its investigation into the documents taken to trump's home. >> they're two of the group of former trump aides and lawyers that the fbi has interviewed since a criminal probe started this spring. cnn's senior crime and justice reporter katelyn polantz is following the story. this is interesting, of course, because we knew they had been questioned about efforts to overturn the election, et cetera, but specifically as well about these classified documents and as the judge is considering perhaps releasing the affidavit behind the search warrant, what do we know? >> right. well, jim and bianna, we have a situation tomorrow where we will be in court, and that hearing is going to be about secrecy. specifically the secrecy surrounding this affidavit that was already submitted and reviewed by the judge in federal court. it is under seal. it is confidential. no one has seen it. and it is the narrative that would explain the investigative steps that the justice dep

we know that from cipollone, we know that from philbin, his deputy counsel. level of classified and the most classified of documents, then you are playing with fire. it just makes no sense that he thought that he could just stiff them, and not get himself in a whole heap of trouble. somebody had to tell him that this was espionage. this is obstruction of justice, and he does not want to hear it. he seems to think that he is teflon, but i think this one will stick. >> interesting. george conway, we are learning in the reporting some unreturned documents like letters between trump and kim jong-un, that were requested just before the end of the trump term. does that speak to intent? >> absolutely. he knew that these documents had to go back, and he insisted on taking them. there is reporting that says that he was the one who called through them the first time before they gave 15 boxes back. his fingerprints literally and figuratively are on this episode. and he is standing, he's out there all alone by himself because all of the people around him who were respons

what our reporting shows us is that pat cipollone's teams are in communications over the parameters of and whatever he's able to tell this grand jury at the end of the day. this is someone who has claimed executive privilege on a number of things. we saw him claiming executive privilege during certain moments with his -- during his deposition interviews with lawmakers on the select committee. so he's likely to try to establish some parameters once again, but it will be the department of justice's work to try to push him beyond that as they get deeper into this investigation and as we've previously reported, investigators are owning in the criminal investigation on the former president himself, which means that cipollone's going to have to decide whether or not he's ultimately going to fully cooperate or not. >> jacqueline alemany, thank you so much for being with us this morning. >>> there's big news from the united nations amid worries of global hunger from the war in ukraine, and it has to do with that ship you see right there. and if you're listening to us, it looks like a big, big

they're zeroing in on the actions within the house as cipollone testified before house committee he wasthere were efforts to come up with plans to subvert the election results and when trump and his associates were talking about replacing the top of the justice department, scipollone and philbin said they would resign if that happened. >> that is significant in terms of the doj. you also have new reporting about donald trump jr. and ivanka trump and this is specifically about the new york attorney general's investigation into the trump organization? >> >> erin, we have learned that ivanka trump sat for her deposition under oath before the attorney general's office today and that donald trump jr. had his deposition under oath last thursday. according to one source, donald trump jr. answered the questions that they asked him. he did not assert the fifth amendment and that is something that his brotheric trump had done when he was questioned under oath. one source says this was a concern about how it would appear if they refused to answer questions under oath. this has been a long-running

he work in the white house counsel office under pat cipollone who has also been subpoenaed.hilbin did not immediately respond to cnn's request for comment. but let's brin

the former administration's top white house attorney, pat cipollone, who allegedly warned about dire consequences for key aspects of the former presidents election scheme, he is now facing the prospect of appearing before a federal grand jury. he's not the only one. also potential fallout from those missing secret service text messages, on or around january 6th, late word that the agency might temporarily disable texting on employee phones while it fixes gaps in how it retains these messages. first, though, that could be a far-reaching, what could be far reaching repercussions from primary elections from five states last night, and deeper kansas a ballot to strip abortion rights lost by a wide margin. hailing it as a bellwether for november. >> in a decisive vote, in a decisive victory, voters made clear that politicians should not interfere with the fundamental rights of women. the voters of kansas sent a powerful signal that this fall the american people will vote to preserve and protect the right and refused to let them be ripped away by politicians. >> tonight we will look closer