and nbc news has confirmed former white house counsel, pat cipollone, and his deputy, pat philbin, are testifying tomorrow before a federal grand jury investigating the insurrection. today, a retired nypd officer received the longest sentence yet in a case related to the capitol riot. thomas webster, he now faces ten years in prison for attacking a d.c. police officer with a metal flagpole. today, donald trump said, he is offering financial support to some of the january six defendants and he also made this promise if he is reelected. >> i will look very very favorably about full pardons if i decide to run and if i went, i will think very strongly about those pilots. i think it's probably going to be the best. because a even if they go for two months or six months, you know they have sentences that have longer than that. >> a man? oh boy. we got questions. let's get smarter with our lead off pat panel. -- investigative reporter with the washington post, former federal prosecutor glenn kirschner who has tried hundreds of cases and his 30 year career. and msnbc legal analyst katie fang,

cipollone said something to the effect of, please make sure we don't go up to the capitol, cassidy.ith me. we're going to get charged with every crime imaginable. >> i was pretty clear there needed to be an immediate and forceful response statement, public statement that people need to tlooef capital now. >> he said to me, we need to make sure that this doesn't happen. this would be legally a terrible idea for us. >> joining me now is former federal prosecutor renato. how big of an escalation is this? you have trump's former white house lawyers now testifying before a grand jury in d.c. >> oh, it's very significant. every time, katie, that we are watching the january 6th committee interview mr. cipollone and he claimed privilege or didn't answer a certain question, all those questions are going to be answered before the grand jury. the law is very clear that that is going to override any executive privilege concern. and if i were the lawyer for mr. clark or mr. eastman, jeffrey lark and john eastman, i would be very concerned right now, because i really think that mr. cipollone has

and pat cipollone said yes.ident said, okay, you know, i'm naming her that and i'm giving her security clearance. and then shortly before we left was when cipollone and/or hershman and whoever the other young man was said you can name her whatever you want to name her and no one's going to pay any attention to it. >> how did you respond -- how did the president respond to that? >> something like you see what i deal with? i deal with this all the time. >> the meeting was extremely heated with cipollone arguing against the special counsel idea and against seizure of voting machines. >> can the federal government seize voting machines? it's a terrible idea. that's not how we do things in the united states. there's no legal authority to do that. the three of them were forcefully attacking me, eric, derek, and we were pushing back and we were asking one simple question as a general matter. where is the evidence? >> what response did you get? >> a variety of responses. like what do you mean where's the evidence? you s

to what extent that is almost moot given cipollone and others have already testified? >> anderson, it tells me that the former president, first of all, is trying to delay, and he's trying to limit the testimony that key advisers can give. it also tells me that doj is aiming to get the most sensitive, most important conversations that they can get. and let me give people a concrete example of how this will make a difference. we saw pat cipollone testify in front of the january 6th committee. it was a videotaped deposition. they played some of those excerpts at the hearing, and there were these moments cipollone would be testifying and then he'd be asked what did you discuss with donald trump, and cipollone would then look at his attorney and say executive privilege and he's refuse to answer. if doj prevails in these fights pat cipollone would have to answer questions and so they're willing to go to court, they're fighting for that right now. >> how long could that take, john? >> could take a good while. i think what's going on here is trump has -- sees the light down at

on friday, cipollone testified before a grand jury investigating january six, he previously testifiedix committee, and his testimony was featured in the public hearings including exchange when cipollone sent everyone on the white house staff wanted rioters to leave the capitol, particularly once the violent started. but when he was asked whether trump also wanted rioters to leave this is how he responded. >> what about the president? >> yes. she said the staff, and so i answered. >> no, i sat in the white house. >> i'm sorry, i apologize, i thought you said who else on the staff. i can't reveal communications, but obviously i think, you know -- >> he will break all this town is barbara quaid, a former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst, barbara, thank you for joining me. when the house committee asked cipollone about trump's response on the capitol riot, he claimed executive privilege. do you think he will also be able to avoid answering questions on the grand jury based on executive privilege? >> i think he will not be able to big success -- successful with executive privilege. i

how significant is the testimony of cipollone and his deputy? >> reporter: jim, this is a very important testimony that we're going to get from the -- that the grand jury is going to get from pat cipollone and patrick philbin. these are two men who are inside the white house counsel. they were in a lot of the meetings that the president was organizing, as he was trying to overturn the election. he was trying to find ways to remain in power. and the importance of this grand jury is that this is the grand jury that is going beyond the 850 rioters who have been brought here and are facing charges for the violence that happened at the u.s. capitol. this is the grand jury that is looking at -- directly at the higher level people, the people who are involved in organizing these so-called fake electors, organizing in seven battleground states, to try to find a way to keep donald trump in power by saying that he won those particular states. that's what this grand jury is overseeing. a short while ago, we saw tom wyndham, the prosecutor who is leading th

pat cipollone any and patrick philbin are appearing in front of a federal grand jury.om congressional testimony cipollone and philbin were both not happy with the president's conduct on january 6. evan perez is outside the courthouse. what do we know? >> reporter: well, john, we saw pat cipollone come in this morning, he left around lunchtime and pat philbin, his deputy, arrived just a short while ago into the courthouse. they are appearing before the grand jury that meets on fridays, this is the grand jury that is looking at possible crimes beyond the rioters, beyond the people who attacked the u.s. capitol on january 6. they are looking at the conduct of the former president, people around him, who are trying to organize these fake electors whose goal, their scheme, was to try to find a way to keep donald trump in office even though he had lost the election. and so what we know is that there have been weeks and weeks of discussions between cipollone and philbin and their legal team and the justice department over exactly what kind of questions that they will be able

this is video of cipollone's arrival.ss for the january 6th committee revealing most notably that trump did not want rioters to leave the capitol on that day. the january 6th requested yesterday that former speaker of the how and newt gingrich testify. let me have you take us through what we expect today from philbin and cipollone in their testimonies to the grand jury. >> pat cipollone arrived two hours ago. >> reporter: we have not seen pat philbin yet and expect him to arrive later this afternoon. a unique situation we know what cipollone will tell the grand jury because he said it on camera before. remember? multiple investigations into january 6th. there is a doj investigation but then also the house investigation and he testified in a deposition for more than seven hours before the investigators where he talked and talked and talked. there video of that that was played during the january 6th hearing. so we know he agreed with attorney general barr where he said there was no widespread voter fraud and the lex was not

. >> but we know about what pat cipollone told the grand jury investigating january six today. when "all in" starts right now. >> good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, as you may have seen, president biden delivered a speech in philadelphia last. might be covered it live. speech outlining the threats to our democracy and what he called the battle for the soul of our nation. no it was, of course, a political speech as all addresses by a sitting president inherently are. but in the aftermath, one of the two major parties, dominated by the maga authoritarian faction the president was talking about, has been whining and moaning about how politically divisive it all was. listen to the republican leader of the house kevin mccarthy who actually started whining about the speech before biden had even delivered it. >> president biden has chosen to divide. demean, and disparaged his fellow americans. why? i simply because they disagree with his policies. that is not leadership. >> say what you will about kevin mccarthy one of the finest orders of his generation. senator podcaster t

by the time you are subpoenaing people like pat cipollone, pat philbin, prosecutors have already beend here is our probable cause that a crime was committed. we are investigating this potential crime, and so that ends up giving these prurosecuts more of a window to question these witnesses in a way we don't see in the congressional committees. >> sara murray, thank you as always. joining us now cnn contributor john dean, white house counsel during the nixon administration and star witness at the watergate hearings. both pat cipollone and pat philbin testified to the january 6th select committee and the hearing shows they pushed back on the efforts to overturn the 2020 election and opposed the attorney general to look into false claims of election fraud. how damning could their potential testimony be for the former president? >> well, they have a lot of knowledge. they certainly have knowledge of the scheme to replace the attorney general with a pliant lower level department of justice assistant attorney general. they have knowledge of the fake elector scheme. they have knowledge, i th

he and pat cipollone spending more than two hours inside.ne is the highest ranking white house aide that we know of that appeared in front of the grand jury. you have the house january 6 committee calling for newt gingrich to come in and testify. we are outside the courthouse. garrett, let me start with you. the grand jury appearances are often black boxes for us in the media, members of the public. do we know anything about cipollone and philbin's appearances? >> we do. it's rare that we know about what likely happened. it's because pat cipollone said it on camera before. two investigations here. the doj investigation and the house investigation into january 6. pat cipollone testified under subpoena for more than seven hours on camera to those investigators. a lot of that played during the january 6 hearing. we know that he agreed with attorney general william barr that the election was not stolen and there was not widespread fraud in the 2020 election. we know from cassidy hutchinson what he said related to donald trump going to the capito

cipollone and mr. philbin, despite we may have differences on policy, i would defend their integrity 20%. these are very, very helpful gentlemen. if they provide testimony that would help the president, that would carry weight and if it hurt the president it would carry weight as well. the lawyers he had, emmitt flood, ty cobb, really, really credible. >> there were disagreements between you and pat cipollone. you made clear there were policy differences but you could attest to his cred ibt and integrity. i want to talk about another one of the major trump investigations. a special master reviewing documents seized from mar-a-lago ordered trump's lawyers to back up his claims that the fbi planted evidence at his florida resort. so this seems to put them in a tough spot, either sign a sworn declaration that evidence was planted or not, basically admitting trump lied. >> it's very interesting to me as a form are lawyer and trump insider and someone who worked in the west wing, this is where we're startin

>> so, yasmin, the house panel got good steps from cipollone.bout donald trump. but the grand journey investigation that makes the steak -- the stakes much higher. we already know that path cipollone was the adult in the room, who tried to get donald trump to do something on january six to make the insurrectionists go home. of course trump refused. these two white house lawyers were also present at the crazy oval office meeting on january 4th where trump was told that the fake electors scheme was unconstitutional but trump just didn't care. >> it seems like that's what they're really tuning in on is the fake elector scheme more than everything else. we're gonna be learning more about it as the same place at. i want to play a little sound from the former president this week talking about the possibility of wanting to pardon some of these folks that have been convicted when it comes to january six. let's play that, and then i'll have your reaction. >> i will tell you, i will look very, very favorably about full pardons if i decide to run and if i

lawyers pat cipollone and patrick philbin are testifying today.e arriving today at the courthouse, about to meet with the federal grand jury as part of the investigation into january 6. meanwhile we're learning the house select committee wants to speak to former house speaker newt gingrich and also ginni thomas, wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas. we now know she emailed wisconsin lawmakers urging them to reverse joe biden's win in that state just like she did with arizona lawmakers. and last night former president trump once again vowed to pardon people who were charged in the capitol attack should he be reelected. let's bring in sin joe walsh an areva martin. i want to start with the grand jury. they had both already testified before the house select smitty and interviewed with the fbi. today talking before the grand jury. explain why they could be central witnesses. >> really devastating news for donald trump and team because pat cipollone and his deputy were in the inner circle, the inner most circle and they worked closest -- some

we were up there and nobody except maybe meadows knows more than cipollone and philbin.were in for everything. they repeatedly told him what they were doing is illegal. cipollone, the reason i mentioned executive privilege, he was able to successfully parry by citing executive privilege. it was not a strong argument first biden has waived it. second, they're going after a trial in the nixon case itself says that they can go into it. so his first big question, i'm sure what they're sweating about right now, does he take the fifth amendment? bothly and philbin are professionals who want a future in the town, are solid lawyers. it would be a body blow to take the fifth. if he doesn't and he fields a question what did trump say when you told him it was unlawful, he can proffer executive privilege and the department of justice can stop the mudic, go to a court saying no, that doesn't fly. answer the question. so unless he and philbin who is even more sort of straight up and even a greater reputation for integrity are going to take the fifth, we're going to have them face the

cipollone and philbin, remember, cipollone's testimony was aired publicly by the house select committee investigating january 6th, he is someone that was pushing back against the actions of the former president and his inner circle with the waning days of his time in office after the election when trump was trying to replace the justice department attorneys, he pushed back and said we would resign if you did that. he is certainly someone that has a lot of information, a lot of direct information with the former president and his top aides. we had previously reported that there were questions about whether executive privilege, again, could become an issue here. now, in order to get him before the grand jury it appears they worked out some parameters of this. even if philbin and cipollone don't discuss their direct communication was trump which is what executive privilege could govern, they were certainly in the room when there were a lot of other conversations taking place, conversations with other allies. it could be very informative to the justice department and the grand jury investig

investigating january 6th, pat cipollone, pat philbin.nd what this says to you about where the investigation is going? >> well, hallie, this is the grand jury that's looking into january 6th and trump's interference of the 2020 election. what we think they might say is what we're gathering that from what pat cipollone already told the january 6th committee and congress who is investigating the insurrection as well, and from that testimony we understand that pat cipollone and pat philbin instructed the president he should not fire his then attorney general william barr in order to find someone to put in the position who might look more closely into these allegations of election interference, that they actually threatened to resign if he, in fact, did that, and that they also instructed him on january 6th to come out with a definitive rebuttal to try to tell these people in no uncertain terms they should not resort to violence and go to the capitol and they should go home. they wanted that quickly and wanted the more aggressively than the p

of former trump white house lawyers, pat cipollone and patrick philbin.nce? >> well, i think it could be very significant. you know, all of us who watched the january 6th committee remember moments where pat cipollone was asked a question, he consulted with his lawyer and then he said it was privileged. all of those questions would be answered in front of the grand jury. the d.c. circuit case law is very clear that grand jury proceeding trumps the concerns of the grand jury trump any concern of executive privilege or attorney/client privilege for government lawyer in that context. so i do think he'll answer all those questions. usually in my experience people give very candid statements to their attorneys. they seek candid advice from their attorneys. and while mr. cipollone was an attorney for the office of the presidency, not for trump personally, it's not clear to me that the former president understood that distinction and was being guarded in his statements to mr. cipollone. >> a lot to parse through and plenty more likely still to come. renato, than

moments ago former trump white house counsel pat cipollone arrived at the d.c.house to testify before a federal grand jury investigating the january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol and efforts to overturn the 2020 election. his former deputy, pat philbin, is also scheduled to testify today. >>> a federal judge in georgia has denied south carolina republican senator lindsey graham's efforts to throw out a subpoena to appear before a grand jury in fulton county, georgia. the judge says he can only be asked certain questions limited to alleged efforts to get ballots thrown out because of protections he has as a senator. >>> meantime, the house january 6th committee is requesting testimony from former house speaker newt gingrich. the panel wants to ask him about emails that said it obtained between gingrich and senior trump advisers in which he gave his input on tv ads that repeated false election fraud claims. >>> and a federal judge in florida says the public can see a more detailed list of what the fbi seized from mar-a-lago, but she did not immediately rule on tr

back to pat cipollone and pat philban. what do we know about that and the kdoj investigation into january 6th? >> remember this one, katy. we've been focussing on the mar-a-lago investigation, this is another huge danger to former president donald trump and these witnesses especially pat cipollone could be the most e dangerous. he's the highest ranking former trump white house official to be called to testify before this grand jury and t we all remembe his testimony before in those televised january 6th hearings, he did not -- he was not favorable to donald trump n whatsoever but there were certain questions he wouldn't answer about conversations with the president. he cited executive privilege. before a federal grand jury it will be harder for him to do that. the u.s. v nixon supreme court case of the watergate era says a criminal investigation usually in most cases overcomes executive privilege and so he may well have to talk to that grand jury and paint a picture of donald trump's state of mind which is crucial. they're

cipollone became a key witness during the congressional hearings.he was the top white house lawyer on january 6th, and in his testimony with the committee, he had an awkward moment when asked about who in the white house did not want people to leave the insurrection. >> what about the president? >> she said the staff. so i answered. >> no, i said in the white house. >> oh, i'm sorry. i apologize. i thought you said who else on the staff. i can't reveal communications, but obviously i think -- yeah. >> you know, yeah. and as the criminal probe heats up, the january 6th committee in congress is also gearing up again with new televised hearings expected this month, and just in, a judge has denied steve bannon's request for a new trial following his july conviction on two counts of contempt of congress. joining me now is nbc news justice reporter ryan riley. ryan, my friend, hope you're doing well. let's start briefly with that steve bannon news. what does this judge's ruling against him tell you? >> i think it means that it was a pretty simple and stra

sources tell cnn the testimony from pat cipollone and pat philman comes after weeks of talks with thetment about what they just could discuss specifically which topics were covered by executive privilege. both men, of course, have also met with the january 6th select committee. out front now george conway and jim schultz, who was a white house lawyer for former president trump. gentlemen, good to see you tonight. as we look at this even with these executive parameters in place a grand jury could potentially get more information out of a witness than a select committee. tonight how worried do you think donald trump should be about this testimony? >> well, i think he should be reasonably worried because i think the testimony cipollone gave earlier before the january 6th committee was pretty substantial and pretty damning of him, even though cipollone drew this art financial line that executive privilege covered his direct conversations with the president but not his conversations with people around the president, still the message got through he was strongly advising that the scheme to

former trump white house counsel, pat cipollone, it is former deputy,t building, appeared in a d.c. federal court friday to testifye a federal jury. cipollone is now now the highest-ranking a known to testify in the doj investigation of january 6th. natalie, back to the search of mar-a-lago. the inventory shows there were 48 empty folders witd banners. what we know about tho? we know about those? >> reporter: that's kind of the big question, liz. it's unclear whether the information inside the empty folders is unaccounted unaccounted for whether they were mixed in with all of the or items that were removed from mao were removed from mar-a-lago ine various boxes and containers. ts something that remains a questin that remains a question, unclear , unclear whether the department department of justice has all te answers right now. they did say in a filing that how the documes were stored will inform the govs investigation. obviously, a lotf concern that that sensitive mats that that sensitive materials were mixed in with all the othe. all the other documents. >> a lot to unpack. natali

in july, cipollone cooperated with the january 6th house committee. he testified behind closed doors for more than seven hours after the congressional panel subpoenaed him. >>> there is new evidence that the wife of a supreme court justice tried to influence the 2020 election. investigative watchdog group called documented obtained new emails. they show that ginni thomas, the wife of clarence thomas emailed wisconsin legislators in november of 2020 asking them to effectively reverse then president trump's election loss to president biden in that state. it was already known that ginni thomas, a conservative activist, had contacted arizona lawmakers with a similar request. both states sent biden electors to the electoral college since he won the popular vote in both states. the electoral college then named biden the winner of the presidential election. >>> russian president vladimir putin visited the body of former soviet leader mikhail gorbachev, but putin will not be attending his funeral. gorbachev died on tuesday, and today putin placed flowers on h

we're talking about pat cipollone and pat philbin. and ali vitali has some information about that. ali? >> reporter: yeah, andrea. yet another addition to the conversation that you're having and yet another salvo in what doj is doing on these investigations into donald trump, specifically this one around the overturning of the 2020 election results or the attempts from the trump campaign to do so. and of course around january 6th. we're now learning from a source familiar telling our peter alexander that pat cipollone and pat philbin, two top white house lawyers from the trump administration, will be speaking before a grand jury tomorrow. it comes really at a time that we have rare insight into what they might be able to tell the department of justice. doj loves to do this stuff behind closed doors but the public has the benefit of the transparency lent by the january 6th investigation where pat cipollone has been a key witness. someone they have shown the public multiple times over the course of their committee hearings and someone who can speak to what was going on both inside th

>> well, we've seen a bunch of cipollone's testimony in front of the january 6th committee. it's very important because he was present at many of the most dangerous sort of crazy yis meeyisiest meetings that we saw, meetings where there was pressuring doj, pressuring the vice president, and generally speaking pat cipollone was a voice of reason. he'd try to talk the president and others out of these worst laid plans. where will he draw a line on executive privilege, if any. he would not answer certain questions about what did you say to donald trump, he claimed executive privilege. the committee did not have the opportunity to go to court to fight that. so the question is will doj accept those indications of executive privilege or will doj go to court and say, no, those conversations are not privileged. we need to know about them. if they get those conversations, jim, those are the most important. >> and elie, something that really jumped out at me this week, trump claiming this week that he has been paying the legal bills of january 6th insurrectionists and rioters, and tha

we know that there were some discussions between cipollone and philbin, their lawyers and the justice department about executive privilege. the question is, are they going to answer every question or are they going to raise executive privilege for some of those? that's what's happening behind the scenes in the courthouse right now. erica? >> evan with the latest for us from outside the courthouse. appreciate it. thank you. >>> president biden issuing a call to action, blaming donald trump and his allies for endangering america's democracy. take aways from the president's prime-time speech next. so no more nudging your partntner. or opting for the couch. because the tetempur-ergo smart base is our first system that detects snoring and d automatically adjusts to help reduce it. your best sleep. all night. every night. don't miss our best offer of the year, with savings up to $700 on select* adjustable mattress sets, and experience the deep, undisturbed rest of tempur-pedic. learn more at *tempurpedic.com okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete balanced nutrition for strength a

the former white house counsel pat cipollone and his deputy patrick philbin.ential is their testimony to determining whether the justice department finds criminal exposure for the president in that investigation? >> well, i don't know that it is essential, but i think it is very helpful. they were involved in all of this back and forth about what should be happening with challenging the election, all leading up to january 6th, trying to pull trump and some of his closer advisers back from what they were doing. i think it will be helpful in terms of his intent. the question is how much are they willing to testify about it? they wouldn't talk about any conversations with trump when they testified before the committee. have they now given that argument up, and because it is doj, and a grand jury investigation, are they going to fight it, does doj have to go to court about this executive privilege issue. that we don't know yet. >> okay. in the midst of all this, the former president said yesterday on a conservative radio station that he will look, and i'm quoting

there was this ramping up, criminal investigation into january 6th, and that appears to be what the cipollone into how that questioning was focused? >> what we've heard so far, leading up to today was that a lot of the grand jury's efforts have been mirroring what the january 6th select committee, the congressional committee has been doing. they have been brought in a lot of the same players, and they are conducting new testimony with them. building off of a lot of the public work that we've already seen from the committee. just based on what we've already heard from other witnesses who testified publicly during the congressional hearings over the summer along with pat cipollone's testimony, he appeared in the final hearing after he finally sat down for investigators were likely, or we should at least expect that the department of justice tried to corroborate or build on some of what they had previously been asked. pat cipollone, and pat philbin were in the room and flies on the wall for a lot of very important conversations and moments. they provided legal advice to the president during thes

i think the justice department would like to be able to ask people like pat philben and pat cipollone more questions. i expect they anticipated eventually they'd be back before the court getting a broader resolution of the kinds of issues john was talking about, whether a former president can invoke a privilege against a sitting president, whether -- whether these conversations are protected by executive privilege at all. and i think the justice department is hopeful they'll get a rule from the court that enables them to go back and get complete testimony from these earlier witnesses. >> yeah. john, you talked about this a little bit in your previous answer that he keeps getting smacked down. but we keep seeing these put up or shut up moments with trump. in the case of the mar-a-lago documents, a special master ordering trump's team to back up evidence there. is it getting tougher to protect trump in these cases or in this case? >> absolutely. absolutely. the -- the idea of a special master probably was a stall, again. and they selected the special master and they got the one they sel

we've seen this with trump white house counsel pat cipollone, who remember we first met publicly, rightt public facing roy, public prominence as the face of trump's defense during his first impeachment trial. how dare you impeach this guy? leave it to the people. he is now publicly among trump 's big lie of a stolen election, as part of his eight hours of testimony to the january 6th committee. >> there was a real question in my mind and a real concern, particularly after the attorney general had reached a conclusion that there wasn't sufficient election fraud to change the outcome of the election. one other people have suggesting kept suggesting that there was, the answer is what is it? and at some point, you have to put up, or shut up. that was my view. >> pretty testy talk there from pat cipollone, and the relative quiet of the deposition. now, another trump white house lawyer, and remember, this guy, his name is ty cobb. he was brought on around the time during the mueller stuff, now, he recently told cbs news he thinks trump will be indicted. and get this, that trump should be disq

we know that pat cipollone is in with the grand jury on the january 6th issues.we know how careful he was about not saying anything that was lawyer/client privilege. what do we think we could get from him and from his deputy today when they are both appearing? >> reporter: andrea, as harry observed, when it comes to a grand jury, he has far less leeway to claim executive privilege. he could claim some of it, but in the nixon versus the -- u.s. v. nixon case in watergate, it established that a criminal investigation overcomes most executive privilege claims. he will have to answer more questions presumably about his conversations with president trump, which could give that grand jury really important information about trump's state of mind and whether he knew this stuff was a lie and whether he was perpetrating a fraud when it came to claims about the election. >> ken, harry, glen, thanks so much to all of you. >>> a chilling scene in argentina. the country's progressive vice president and former president had a gun pointed directly in her face as she greeted supp

cipollone has been interviewed about the documents at mar-a-lago. they have testified behind closed doors with the january 6 committee. let's begin there. evan perez is in washington. what can you tell us about what happened in the hearing? >> reporter: it was about a two hour hearing. the judge made clear that she's thinking about appointing this special master. the justice department disagrees with that. they say that there is no need for appointing a special master. they pointed out that this special -- this separate team of lawyers that is not connected to the investigation has gone through these documents, has separated about more than 500 pages of documents that could have some kind of attorney/client privilege material. they have removed that. they have a procedure set up to review that information. she, however, seems to think -- she said in court, what would be the harm to have a third party come and look at these documents, not only for attorney/client privilege but she said that she -- this issue of executive privilege, which the former p

former white house council pat cipollone and his deputy pat philbin appeared on friday as part of thetment's investigation into january 6th. the two reportedly spend about four hours with jurors and prosecutors after being subpoenaed last month. cipollone has emerged as a key figure in the january 6th investigations for his pushback of plans by trump and others to overturn the 2020 election results. he testified before the house january 6th committee for about eight hours. joining us now, "new york times" congressional reporter luke broadwater. good morning, luke. >> hi, good morning. >> a few questions for you. they keep using this word "voluntarily," they hope he voluntarily comes forward. as you just heard on "face the nation," most of the people who testified have come forward voluntarily. do you expect that to happen or are we looking at a situation with a subpoena? >> mike pence is in a very tricky position politically. obviously, he stood up to donald trump on january 6th, and he and his team had offered up mark short and greg jacob, two top aides, hoping to alleviate the need

they feature testimony from donald trump's own white house counsel, pat cipollone, and his attorney general barr. you've heard from the vice president chief of staff, marc short, and his top council, greg jacob. the committee also called former federal judge, michael luttig, who was a hero in conservative legal circles. rusty bowers, the arizona house speaker, and georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger testified. both of those respected elected republicans. it's all the effort to show republicans that even people who share the politics, we share their worldview or ideology, their faith and their commitments, recognize the danger and the abnormality of what happened leading up to and on january 6th. there's another really interesting person that fits in that mold, who's been part of the committees weren't. he is a rain mostly behind the scenes until now. there is news about him this weekend. his name is denver riggleman. is now very much in the public eye, because he's written a book which is coming out tomorrow, about his work as a staffer for the january six committee. he had an in

former white house counsel pat cipollone and his deputy, that philbin, testified on friday in the justicetment insurrection investigation. we learned the house committee is seeking information from ex house speaker, new kangaroos about his support of advertisements denying the 2020 election results. all of that combined with increased threats to federal agents after the mar-a-lago raid, but president biden hit the airwaves in primetime this week. he spoke and philadelphia, pointing out the gop anti-democratic efforts are karma. the timing of his speech, no coincidence with the midterms snow just weeks away. >> maga republicans did not respect the constitution. they do not believe in the rule of law. they did not recognize the will of the people. they refused to accept the results of a free election, and they are working right now as i speak in state after state to give power to decide elections in america to partisans and cronies empowering election deniers to undermine democracy itself. >> tia mitchell and charles coleman jr. are back with me. tÉa, the same day biden condemned maga extre

its path cipollone, it's patrick feldman. all these different lawyers were telling donald trump was to have the presidency, after they left the presidency. these are not sure records. their presidential records. they go back to the air carbs. we need to turn everything over. he frames out in the context of intent. and the willful retention of these documents and his refusal, his obstruction, of the efforts by the government to recover them. that transpired in june, and that ultimately led to the search warrant in august. if there's an indictment, this was part and parcel of the narrative outlined and that indictment. >> so, let's go back to this conversation that eric richmond has with donald trump. which the new york times doesn't have a fixed date for it but it was before the first group of documents were returned. to the national archives. so, you see, after that conversation with eric richmond. a trump response, and effects. by giving back these documents to the national archive. were turned out to include 180 classified

pat cipollone and his top deputy, patrick philbin, meeting behind closed doors about efforts by formersident trump, allies and supporters to overturn the results of the 2020 election. cipollone questioned for nearly three hours is the highest ranking trump white house aide to appear before the grand jury. >>> this morning, an urgent search is under way for a woman from a prominent memphis family kidnapped while jogging early friday morning near the city's college campus. police are appealing to the public for information. abc's faith abubey has the report. >> reporter: this morning a search is under way right now in memphis. a mother of two apparently kidnapped during her morning run. her family now offering a $50,000 reward as the manhunt gears up. >> abduction earlier for ms. eliza fletcher. >> reporter: 34-year-old kindergarten teacher eliza fletcher seen in the surveillance photo on a jog friday around 4:30 a.m. near the university of memphis. police say this dark suv approached her and forced her inside. >> the real key to the case right now based on what we know would be the vehi

pat cipollone and his former deputy patrick philbin were subpoenaed in the ongoing investigation into the january 6 riot at the u.s. capitol. the men were key witnesses to former president trump's actions in the last days of his presidency. they have already testified before the house select committee, which is also investigating what happened on january 6. >> coming up on kron, 4 news next. in sports, 3 days after a greeting to agree to his new contract with the forty-niners jimmy garoppolo returned to the practice field today. sports director jason dumas says has reaction from jimmy g and trey lance. that's coming up. >> how to keep your home is cool as possible. with or without air conditioning. ♪ (don't stop me now) ♪ ♪ ♪ (don't stop me) ♪ ♪ 'cause i'm having a good time ♪ ♪ having a good time ♪ ♪ i'm a shooting star leaping through the sky like a tiger ♪ ♪ defying the laws of gravity ♪ ♪ (don't stop me now) ♪ ♪ 'cause i'm having a good time ♪ ♪ i don't wanna stop at all, yeah ♪ ♪ ah, da, da, da, da da, da, ah, ah ♪ meet three sisters. the drummer, the dribbler, and the day-dreame

today, the former white house counsel, pat cipollone, and his deputy appeared as that probe continues to plow ahead with its work almost entirely out of public view. nancy. >> cordes: and let's of now questions about what was in those empty folders. robert costa, thank you so much. we're going to go now to jackson, mississippi, and day five of the humanitarian water crisis affecting nearly 200,000 people. and for thousands of residents on dialysis, clean water is the difference between life and death. cbs' elise preston is there. >> reporter: jackson's water crisis is turning into a health emergency for arlester johnson. three times a week, johnson sits for hours hooked up to a dialysis machine that relies heavily on clean water to treat his failing kidneys. >> i think the place has these machines so i can live. >> reporter: johnson is one of more than 8,000 mississippi residents on dialysis. the life-sustainsing treatment needs plenty of clean water. that's why dialysis providers are hau hauling in tanker trucks filled with 6200 gallons of water. one tanker just lasts a day. the wate

and in a separate investigation into january 6th, former trump white house counsel pat cipollone and former deputy whit house counel pat philbin are expected to appear before a federal grand jury today. it all comes as a judge issues the longest sentence yet, thomas webster, a former marine and new york city police officer was given ten years in prison for assaulting a police officer during the riot. hours before webster's sentencing, trump said, if he was ever elected president again, he would look into issuing full pardons to people charged in the attack. >> i will look, very, very favorably about, about full pardons. it's a disgrace what they've done to them, and i mean full pardons with an apology to many an apology. >> amen. >> they have been so badly, so badly treated. >> trump also said he was offering some financial support to some of the people involved in the attack. >>> former president trump and the justice department are waiting to hear from a federal judge over an intense hearing over the classified documents the fbi retrieved from mar-a-lago. trump wants an outside exp

. >> that's right, former white house counsel pat cipollone as well as his deputy. they're expected to appear before a federal grand jury that's invested in the events surrounding the capitol attack it's critical because both men are viewed as key witnesses who were there for the final days of the trump presidency >>> president biden a short time ago delivering a primetime address with just months until the midterms kelly o'donnell is at the white house. >> reporter: returning to where american democracy was forged long ago, president biden with a call to action to protect the freedoms he says face real jeopardy. >> i'm asking our nation to come together, unite behind the single purpose of defending our democracy regardless of your ideology >> reporter: while touting the strength of the soul of the nation, he warned about extremes in the republican party >> too much of what's happening in our country today is not normal donald trump and the maga republicans represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic. >> reporter: ten weeks before the

former white house counsel pat cipollone and former deputy white house counsel pat philbin were subpoenaed by a federal grand jury investigating the attack on the capitol. cecilia? >> martha raddatz leading us off tonight, thank you. >>> we're going to turn now to the showdown in a florida courtroom over the documents retrieved from mar-a-lago. lawyers for former president trump asking for a special master to review the materials and decide whether they are covered by trump's claims of privilege. today saying the delay in returning those records is like having overdue library books. but the government is saying that since he's no longer president, trump no longer has the right to any of the 322 classified documents found inside his home. and they say a special master would simply slow down their investigation. here's abc's chief justice correspondent pierre thomas from florida. >> reporter: in an intense hearing in that florida courtroom, former president trump's attorneys comparing the hundreds of classified documents discovered at mar-a-lago to overdue library books. they were trying to