i mean, the va caseload itself is largely cissing of -- consisting of older veterans. and the va handles many individuals who need health care. the immediate growth of the new generation of veterans as you've referred to it here in the hearing is a challenge for them because they need to adapt their provider mix, and that's, those are growth problems. but to the extent that there are also providers available in the private sector, i'll suggest without the basis of research that it's certainly worth thinking about trying to figure out how to make use of extent capacity in the private sector. >> and i appreciate that. and one of the points of this hearing is cost of war just providing it in the private sector is not free. it is still a cost, and we have to keep focused on that. senator brown? >> thank you. chris, i just want to go back to you, and i apologize. i had to go down to another hearing. and i have some questions, and so if you've answered this, i apologize. during your time going through what you were going through, did you ever go to any outside agencies outsi