commissioner cladney? >> i didn't request to speak. commissioner catrow: was it commissioner kirsanow? >> yes. very briefly first, the commission did have hearings on voter fraud about 11 years ago, maybe it was 10 years ago. and there's considerable evidence of voter fraud. not only that congress has had hearings and contrast to popular people there's voter fraud and i testified in one of those hearings and i've got copious evidence of that as a number of statisticians. voter i.d. laws have been upheld numerous times by federal courts. they are not simply devices to somehow deprive individuals on the base of race or ethnicity on the right to vote. there are legitimate methods of protecting the franchise for all. third, this is contrary to the commission's own findings in previous voter i.d. hearings that we've had. it's all i have to say. commissioner castro: commissioner heriot and the vice chair i'm going to call for question. commissioner heriot: you ended your statement with a statement i can agree with. you said that just because