>> well, jim claper is unique in that he's actually run two of the big five agencies. and he has the trust of the pentagon. so that should enable him to do some things. >> brown: because there has been some tension. >> there's been a lot of tension between the intelligence community and the pentagon. they fight over the same pot of money. they fight over roles and missions. what i'd like to see jim do is start downsizing this incredible bloat that has occurred since 9/11 and about which the post has written so well yesterday and today. we're going to need to right- size the intelligence community. and taking the power that he has to move money around, he's going to have to, i think, beginning next year make cuts in the intelligence community budget. this is the first time in the last several years that this has happened. the intelligence community budget has tripled since 9/11. anything that anyone ever wants. if they say it's about terrorism or about cyber security they get the money for it. >> brown: you're not talking just about his office. you're talking about the

>> i d >> brown: claper's nomination is expected to be confirmed by the full senate. for more on this for more on this, i'm joined by philip zelikow, a former state department counselor to condoleezza rice. he served as executive director of the 9/11 commission, and is now professor of history at the university of virginia. and richard clarke, the former white house point person on counterterrorism in the clinton administration and early days of the george w. bush administration. he is now the chairman of good harbor consulting. richard clarke, we heard senator bond say for... we're six years into this experiment of intelligence reform. we have a long way to go. why? what's the basic problem? focus first on the d.n.i.position. >> the problem is you do have these 16 agencies five of which are very large. and suddenly someone is put on top of them who says i'm in charge and i'm going to tell you what to do. when before they were independent. in washington everyone is concerned about their turf, their rights, their prerogatives. no one wants to give up what they had whic