i wasn't -- i was in berkeley the night they fired the university of clark, and clark kerr thought he was dealing with a dumbbell, you know -- >> rose: because the california system -- >> right. and he really thought he was going to get the regents and i remember just everybody sitting, reagan came in and sat down as governor, put his hand on the table and said, this is not going to stand, and they were talking about conduct on the campus, at the university of california at berkeley and that had been a big part of his campaign and he was going to see it through and by the end of the day clark kerr was out of a jo. >> rose: so what are the lessons in presidential leadership, boldness, the american people would like to see bold. >> i think the president said this, he said he realized that in america, and the country, the ideological divide is not there, there may be a divide on policy but it is not a deep ideological divide the way you see it in congress. >> that's true. >> rose: and you have to reach out to that. and bill clinton has come forward to say, we will talk about the choices

i wasn't -- i was in berkeley the night they fired the university of clark, and clark kerr thought he was dealing with a dumbbell, you know -- >> rose: because the california system -- >> right. and he really thought he was going to get the regents and a really conservative party. >> and general eisenhower did not speak out forcefully at the beginning. >> precisely. and my sense of what history tells us is that presidents get two or three shots, basically, and it is in the nature of politics which is not clinical but human and it is messy and difficult and it is always provisional, wow get two or three chances to rise above that particular moment and leave something that we talk about going forward, and with the congress in 1944, it was the gi bill, it was the bush 41 it was iraq and the mission to kuwait, and doing the right thing in terms of the 1990 budget deal, which bill clinton will tell you helped set up the prosperity of 1990s and george herbert walker bush knew when he broke the read my lips pledge at andrews air force base in 1990 he was going to lose the presidency. >> and