cliff charlesworth was the lead flight director. and one of the responsibilities of the lead flight director is to identify which flight director is going to cover which phase of the mission. and moving in there, this was the first mission where in apollo now, where lonnie, charlesworth and myself, who had been flight directors on gemini were actually coming back together again. so you had probably the three most experienced people at the console. and it was a question of who was going to get to do what. and lonnie had been to the moon a couple times. charlesworth had launched saturns, and i had the lunar module experience. so you had no particular driver that says this person ought to be doing this phase of the mission. and i was division chief at that time and craft had been really on top of us to nail down who is going to do what. until finally, after the apollo 9 mission, we all managed to get together, and charlesworth as lead had to make the calls. and i called him and i said cliff, we've got to make a decision on which flight

my flight directors, cliff charlesworth was one of the first to go. we were now looking at how we could apply some of the technologies we had to other problems on earth. glenn lunny left. he picked up the apollo soyuz program at that time which is now this next generation of involvement trying to involve the russians in space as partners. all of a sudden i started finding myself short in flight directors and having to bring new people on-board. so i was -- role was sort of a mentor, teacher, tutor, same as kraft had done in the early days, and at the same time to stretch our assets because i had to move training people over there. we started standardizing many of the mission flights. i would launch the apollo 15, 16, 17 from both the earth, as well as the moon. and the other flight directors would ahandle the evas. griffin would do the landings. we kept the experience as high as we could and moved new generations over to the sky lab program. 14 stands out because probably one of the most famous things that griffin -- it's the one i remember griffin in