won't they find an agreement with me in the studio here to discuss that issue is my colleague clifford killen in fresh couldn't fresh back from beijing and the us addition to w.'s business team here in berlin welcome cliff a president. treasury secretaries didn't nugent expect significant progress that's a quote at these talks to me we'd expect a deal well i think we were talking a little bit in the run up to this ad there's been a lot of to ing and fro ing on this i wouldn't hold my breath i think. present from needs a win that's for sure and there is a lot of sentiment out there that they have to try and make things appear more positive but they're still very far apart and some of the key issues such as protection of intellectual property rights and particularly on reform so i think there's going to be there's a long way to go i think before we will find a deal on the more sort of positive sentiment area how much is the crisis surrounding who are way to knowledge is telecoms group. playing a role is it way really weighing on these tools when i read somewhere or someone use the headline wow