. >>> with us the former fbi profiler, msnbc contributor, clint van zandt. clint, let me just ask you this, there's real legitimate is i to discuss people with guns, getting guns, the distance we have to go in this country to be better about recognizing and treating mental health issues. but sometimes, sometimes in the immediate wake of these mass shootings, it feels like a thing to hide behind. before we know anything, before we have any history of a person's evaluations from a mental health perspective, there are people who say it's a mental health issue, which is why we don't have to talk about gun control. >> well, we have to talk about it all, ali. number one, last year there were 27 million guns sold legally in the united states. 27 million guns went from a store to the hands of a private individual, to include this shooter. and i think president trump is wrong in this. of course it's guns. we have seen the best and the worst of private gun ownership. we saw this individual use a weapon and commit this mass murder in charge with a gun ownership that, i

. >> yeah, let's bring into the conversation clint van zandt, and msnbc contributor and jim cavanaugh, retired special agent in charge at the atf. clint, let me begin with you and pick up on that question that yasmin was asking, which is why? and i know that it's obviously early on. but if you are an investigator and you are now tasked with compositing a profile of this heinous crime, why? >> yeah. there's a number of reachsons investigators are going to look at. one of the reasons atf will be on the scene. they'll see if there is any possibility of terrorism. they want to see if it could be a hate crime. you talked earlier about the shooting that took place in charleston. realize just in september 27 of this year, there was a church shooting in tennessee, where a man did something similar. walked in, shot someone outside the church, then walked in. so the fbi, atf, local police, rangers, everybody there will be trying to say, could it be an international incident? is it an incident of a hate crime, is there a mentally disturbed individual? is it a domestic case? we don't know right n

. >>> joining us is clint van zandt. here we are again talking through another tragedy. >> again. >> talk a bit about -- we're starting to learn more about social media about who this person was, devin kelley. we know he stopped across the street at the gas station, he was wearing a bullet poof vest, and at the maven dishonorably discharged. where does this investigation go? >> one thing we have had her we about 325 million americans and well over 300 million guns. unfortunater unfortunati the laws won't net keep the -- and keep -- the investigation kins. she was in the air force, he was court-martialed, bad conduct discharge allegedly incarcerated by the air force, and then kicked out of the military. showing this weapon, making statements about the gun, and mae statements, this is currenting -- this is a narcissistic individual who has an incontemplated opinion of himself, and maybe an insult accumulator. someone who has challenges in life, but unfortunately today people instead of looking in the mirror and saying my l

. >>> joining me now is former fbi profiler clint van zandt. thank you for taking the time tonight.preciate it. >> sure. >> we never really found an answer in the wake of the las vegas shooting about why it was that that tragedy unfolded. but the information that we have so far about what happened here, that this man was spotted at a gas station, wearing a bulletproof vest, pete williams is looking into these reports that he may have been his honorably discharged from the force, what are your questions and takeaways? >> part of this is that we see so many narcissistic individuals that are engaged in something like this where they have this inflated sense of self-importance. if that's damaged, if they have a wounded ego, they act out in negative ways sometimes. it's only been five years since the aurora, colorado, shooter in that movie theater where 12 were killed and 70 wounded. that individual dressed the same. ballistic helmets, load-bearing vests and multiple weapons. this guy can very easily be one more copycat. so far this year. >> we've had 60 mass shootings where one or more

clint van zandt, malcolm nance, jim cavanaugh, i want to bring in the mayor whom i have on the phone,elieve. are you there? >> i am. >> thank you for joining us. our hearts go out to your community just 40 miles from your city. what are you hearing more? >> well, we have been able to confirm at this point there's been a shooting and a major loss of life. we do have victims being transported or have been transported to area hospitals to receive life-saving care, we hope. it's a very tragic situation. and there's active investigation happen right now. we are asking for people's patience and prayers for the victims. we know our young people as well. so this is a tragic day in texas. >> mayor, talk to me about when you first learned about this, how it all unfolded for you, where you were and i'm sure information like this, it trickles in as it happens. first it is two people, four people, now 25 people. talk to me about the timeline for you, and then approximately 25 victims, talking about the timeline that you heard and when, when you called the area hospitals to say, all hands on deck,

clint van zandt, former fbi profiler and author of "facing down evil."you both. >>> i want to turn to nbc's gabe gutierrez, with me working the story for the last many, many hours. >> reporter: talking about the victims and the story emerging of this family, the holcombe family. eight members of the same extended family, and it's just devastating for this community. >> excuse me. people haven't been following it. eight members of the same family killed in that church? three generations. >> reporter: exactly right. the victims range from 18 months to 77 years olds. up to 14 children. think about that. 26 dead, 14 children. the holcombe family, eight members of the same extended family. joe holcombe, he heard about this yesterday. he wasn't at the church, but he just lost three generations. three generations of a single family. and his son brian, he was actually scheduled to be the fill-in pastor. going up to preach at this church when the shots rang out. not only was he killed, his wife killed, other members of the family killed. the youngest, 18 months o

i want to bring clint van zandt back into the conversation.fbi profiler who has worked on a lot of stuff like this, sadly. it's a tough job for you, i know. you have seen a lot of various situations like this one so i wanted to bring everybody up to date as to what we know about the shooter. so you can give us even more information as to what your hunch tells you. your experience with this tells you. law enforcement officials identifying the gunman as devin patrick kelley. i believe it's devin patrick kelley. aged 26. of neighboring coe mall county. he was known to the community, but we don't know if there was a direct connection to the community. if he has attended this church. if he hadn't attended this church, if he knew someone that went to this church. if he had -- had lived in the community at one point. none of that we know. and then of course pete telling us there was no obvious connection to terrorism as well. so we know that as well. still not a lot, clint. still not a lot, but we are getting closer. and authorities now searching the