there was an investigation that determined there was no foul play between marc rich and the clintons richard nixon stepped down after it was revealed that he had spied on his political. ponens and then obstructed justice in an attempt to cover it up now gerald ford who were placed in the oval office decided to let bygones be bygones he said it was an act of mercy all right your are for. the president of the united states granted and by these presidents to grant aid to free and absolute pardon under richard nixon the first presidential pardon in u.s. history was handed down by george washington the leaders of a rebellion that had taken place at the time the man dubbed the father of america hope that this act of forgiveness would help bring a new country together but roll on two hundred years and it seems that presidential pardons and sentence commutations are little less about honor and healing and a little more about you scratch my back and i'll scratch yours over centuries now there's been a process involved where you have something called the office of the pardon attorney people meticulously rev

there was an investigation that determined there was no foul play between marc rich and the clintons richard nixon stepped down after it was revealed that he had spied on his political. ponens and then obstructed justice in an attempt to cover it up now gerald ford who were placed in the oval office decided to let bygones be bygones he said it was an act of mercy all right your own our lord. president of the united states granted and by these presidents to grant. a fool free and absolute pardon under richard nixon the first presidential pardon in u.s. history was handed down by george washington the leaders of a rebellion that had taken place at the time the man dubbed the father of america hoped that this act of forgiveness would help bring a new country together but roll on two hundred years and it seems that presidential pardons and sentence commutations are little less about honor and healing and a little more about you scratch my back and i'll scratch yours over centuries now there's been a process involved where you have something called the office of the pardon attorney people meticulously

there was an investigation that determined there was no foul play between marc rich and the clintons richard nixon stepped down after it was revealed that he had spied on his political. ponens and then obstructed justice in an attempt to cover it up now gerald ford who were placed in the oval office decided to let bygones be bygones he said it was an act of mercy all right your own our lord. president of the united states granted and by these presidents to grant. a fool free and absolute pardon under richard nixon the first presidential pardon in u.s. history was handed down by george washington to leaders of a rebellion that had taken place at the time the man dubbed the father of america hope that this act of forgiveness would help bring a new country together but roll on two hundred years and it seems that presidential pardons and sentence commutations are little less about honor and healing and a little more about you scratch my back and i'll scratch yours over centuries now there's been a process of volved where you have something called the office of the pardon attorney people meticulously r

. >> richard nixon. bill clinton. they were both impeached for obstruction of justice. >> for duly firing somebody who worked for him as a subordinate. and here's the other issue. robert mueller recommended james comey to be successor to barack obama. that's a fact. robert mueller should not have been picked by rosenstein. he could have picked anybody. we have 40 million people in this country. i don't know why he picked bob mueller. when you look at those questions, the questions that special counsel wants to ask the president, they directly and ultimately are dealing with comey. and comey's memos. >> mueller was fbi director under george w. bush. >> true. okay, fine. >> he apparently went in to talk to presirumpdent tbout perhaps -- >> he gets a point. that's very weird. i don't know why rosenstein would have done that. >> the guy is a war hero by all accounts. >> if we want to show no conflict of interest, why pick him? look, when i was on the grand ju jury, you might have heard i gave grand jury testimony. i was t

. >> reporter: articles of impeachment against richard nixon and bill clinton, but legal experts sayt's still unlikely a sitting president would face criminal indictment for obstruction of justice. stephanie ramos, abc news, washington. >>> students survived the parkland school massacre are taking their campaign to change gun laws on the road. today the students announced what they're calling the march for our lives road to change tour. it's a 60-day, 20 state road trip which will start next week. the students say their goals are twofold, to change gun laws and get young people registered to vote. >> we can march. we can bring our politicians into a new light and make suree. at the end of the day real change is brought from same you people who helped organize the march for our lives protest in washington, d.c. today's announcement comes hours after an emotional graduation ceremony for the senior class of marjory stoneman high school. the former sheriff's deputy who has been widely criticized for not engaging the suspect broke his silence today. scott peterson said he's haunted by the

that some people may consider an obstruction of justice r, and do not forget that both richard nixon and bill clinton, and bill clinton survived, but he was i impeached on that basis. so that is something that the president needs to be weary of, and also, that his attorneys have an expansive view of the presidential powers and louie the xviiith that he is the law. and so that is the problem -- >> i have heard that today as well as president can do virtually anything and get away with it. >> glen, back to the legal team admitting it appears in this 20-page memo that the president dictated to his son don jr., what does this do in terms of expezzure to the president and don jr.? >> it seams like a problem. i have every reason to expect he will say i was misinformed because i wasn't at the meeting. i was relyingan on information provided by others when i was crafting this or helping craft it. i suspect there is going to be some wiggle room there. now it's going to be one of the many building blocks that show conspiracy, collusion, obstruction of justice. i don't think this standing alone is necessarily a

team for the us government in the justiceiceen department as they upheld under richard nixon and democratic pres.s, bill clinton the uniform consensus is a sitting president cannot be indicted for obstruction of justicel or any other federal crime this is an just going to happen or should it happen because the presiden is not done anything illegal. >> he and his legal team are adamant on that point. there are a number of legal scholars out there who say there's no way the framers could have intended someone could become the most powerful man in america and be able to commit crimes and excuse himself. ecific case with the idea that he could makes no sense. >> it would be an extraordinary situation. we have not had to face that in our country yet. whether pres. could be indicted after his presidency for things that occurred during his presidency the supreme court has not ruled that out. it could be possible. >> i agree that post it is possible but it is back to political reality, like the constitution says you can't cut judges pay, what if congress were to refuse any salary? it is a constitutional imponderable we

. >> as you know, articles of impeachment for richard nixon and president clinton included lying to the public. >> very broad. very broad. i had the position with the clinton impeachment it was a terrible mistake. both legal and political. first of all, congress is going to impeach somebody for lying to the press? come on. they do more lying to the press than anybody. >> will the president testify and are you still -- do you believe robert mueller is committed to wrapping this up by september 1st? >> i'll answer the second first. i believe he is because of the midterm elections. he's as sensitive as anybody to not doing another comey and interfering horribly in the election. i don't think it had as big an impact as some people think. they have a right to think that. second, i do think it's still an open question. but it's beginning to get resolved in favor of not doing it. unless they start coming across with things that we're asking for. major giuliani, thank you for joining us this morning. >>> we're joined live by our legal team, chris christie and dan abrams. with a new book out thi

bill clinton send this most eloquently. was time to judge richard nixon on his entire record. i think it shows he was a peacemaker. >> he died in 94, do you recall your final conversation with him before his stroke? >> guest: i was supposed to dine with him the day before. i had to cancel. he was very upbeat. never very retrospective or introspective. he was always looking forward. he came to be a key advisor to president clinton during the breakup of the soviet union developments in china. he wrote bestsellers on foreign policy in his retirement years. people asked me about my reference before next and. it was almost nonpolitical. it has to do with his resilience and persistence. it's an american story, defeated, not down, disgrace, he still kept coming back. a man is not finished when he's defeated nixon wrote, he's only finished when he quit. i subscribe to the. >> from the michigan we have henry next. go ahead. >> good morning. i would like to piggyback on the missouri caller. the first using a metaphor of war. a conventional invading force into america or any other countr

the justice department, as they upheld both under republican presidents, richard nixon, and democratic presidents, bill clinton, the uniform consensus is that a sitting president ce indicte obstruction of justice or any other federal crime. so this is not going to happen and nor should it happen because the president has not done anything illegal. >> shannon: he and his legal team both are adamant on that point. let me ask you both very quickly, a number of legal scholars had to say there is no way the framers could have intended that someone could have become the most powerful man in america, then commit crimes and excuse himself. they are not talking about the specific case but they are saying, that idea that he could makes no sense. i want you both quickly to weigh in. nelson, i will start with you. >> that would be an extraordinary situation. we have not had to face that in our country at. whether a president could be indicted after his presidency for things that occurred during his presidency, the supreme court has not ruled that out. that could be possible. >> shannon: ken, quickly to you. >> i agree tha

subpoenas the president, there is clear precedent, clinton versus jones supreme court case and earlier the unanimous u.s. versus nixon watergate case, requiring richard nixon to comply with a subpoena and turn over the watergate tapes. there is no debate at all about whether or not the president would be required to testify, if he is handed a subpoena. no president wants to be handed that subpoena. clinton was handed that i can starr.st buy ken a limitednegotiated time the president was able to testify from the white house. he did not have to have the indignity of walking to the grand jury room. lawyers sitting next to them, which is not what you would have if you went to the grand jury. watched itr is live on tv. what we are seeing this loud back and forth, all just loud negotiating tactics coming to a fairly predictable solution. mueller has subpoena power and the president does not want to be subpoenaed. he would rather do it voluntarily. host: rudy giuliani directly involved in this process. at you imagine his role is in trying to negotiate? guest: he is obviously a very good negotiator. he is also someone who i think ear.the president's i think

clinton was subpoenaed but ultimately the subpoena was withdrawn when he voluntarily agreed to an interview after being subpoenaed. but we do know that the supreme court upheld the subpoena for documents for richard nixon and also the supreme court held in the case of bill clinton, that he was not immune from a civil lawsuit when he was in office. and the court famously said there that the president is not above the law. i suspect that in court, if he is subpoenaed, the president will lose and he will ultimately have to sit for an interview. at that point, then, he could take the fifth just like any other citizen. >> jim, i think most citizens are asking if the president did nothing wrong like he says, shouldn't it be easy for him to sit down and just tell the truth? >> well, i think public opinion is going to play a very large part in this. and has played a large part in the president's commentary from day one on him being willing to sit down with mueller's team and mueller as it relates to an interview. i think that's going to be a very significant factor in determining whether he's goin to do that. now lawyers are going to try to constrain precisely what they're going to ask as it relates to potenti

simply can't obstruct justice, well, that was one of the articles of impeachment against richard nixon, against bill clintonof course, a president can obstruct justice, doesn't mean he'd get charged as a sitting president. >> they went on to say he could shut down any investigation for any reason. and i guess the bottom line, chris, of this 20-page letter is don't hold your breath for an interview. >> no. this is what we've been saying all along. there's not going to be an interview. there can't be for a whole variety of reasons there shouldn't be so the president as much as he may think he wants to testify and meet with bob mueller he shouldn't. and i would say one other thing that, you know, what you are seeing now is a change in not only legal strategy, but in the quality of the legal team. that kind of letter indicates to you that the president was operating with a "b" team of legal representatives before this, and now he has people who really understand, i think, much better what his liabilities are, and also what the opportunities are from both a legal and a public relations perspective to move this t

voting trends, went for lyndon johnson in 1964, richard nixon in 1972, went for reagan in 1980 and 1984, the so-called reagan democrats, then back to clinton in 1992, barack obama in 2008 and generally speaking donald trump in 2016. is that correct? timothy: for the most part. one of the things to really understand about the clinton and obama is, one of the things we often overlook is how much the democratic party shifted since the 1960's. the democratic party of bill clinton is not the democratic party of lyndon johnson. it's bill clinton that says the era of big government is over and ends welfare as we know it so they turned us back into a far more centrist party that still appeals to that and clinton has that style. he was able to do that. the big one you talk about is reagan. and the reagan democrat. for all intents and purposes, a local study of people who would later be called reagan democrats, one of the lines in the book is, before people called them reagan democrats, in philadelphia, they were calling them rizzocrats because it was less about party and more about the person. host: let me take it one step further, then. what is it

bill clinton said this most eloquently at president nixon's funeral. it is time to judge richard nixon onis entire record, and his record i think shows he was a peace maker. host: he died in 1994. do you recall your final conversation with hinl? guest: i was supposed to dine with him the day before, and i had to cancel. but he was very upbeat. he was never very retrospective or intro spective. he was always looking forward. and as you know he came to be a key adviser to president clinton during the breakup of the soviet ubeion and developments in china also wrote numerous best sellers on foreign policy in his retirement years. ask me about my reverence for nixon. it in a sense is almost nonpolitical. it has to do with ask his resilience, with his persistance. it's an american story. defeated, knocked down, disgraced, he still kept coming back. a man is not finished when he's defeated, nixon wrote. he is only finished when he quits. i subscribe to that. host: on the democrat's line from michigan. henry you're next with roger stone joining us in florida. go ahead with your question

thomas jefferson, richard nixon had two bouts of the supreme court and releasing the watergate tapes. bill clintonad two bouts of the supreme court when it came to testifying in the paula jones civil suit. >> that's exactly right but you have to remember, the giuliani legal team is trying to negotiate with the mueller team to decide if it's the right thing to have this interview and if so, they want to understand the scope of the questions. there's the potential to avoid teams cawork together and it is determined the questions that will be asked will be relevant to an investigation to prove once and for all, there was no collusion. it sounds like what giuliani and his team are saying, you don't need to go the subpoena route but if you do, we will fight it in court. the president has offered to sit down with the investigators but he has said, they want to understand what the scope of questions will be before they sit down and do that. >>chris: i want to try to lower this down a little bit. giuliani says if mueller gets a subpoena which is a court order, giuliani and the legal team will go to court.

richard nixon had the same idea. a friend of mine who worked in the clinton administration told me they refrained from calling themselveseral internationalists, which is what -- will sony and ideal camp wilsonianhat the known.amp had come to be i think before and after vietnam, this idea of nationalism gets more contained. wilson was very grany ambitious. he said the united states could not be a great nation and was its of duty and mission penetrated to the hearts of every nation in the world. that is a really sweeping kind of statement, that you as a nation are going to be on the same wavelength and really thinking about what is best for every nation in the world. brian: you say in your book, and this will go by very fast, it is george w. bush. it is only nine seconds. put this in the context. [video clip] >> the liberty we prize is not america's gift to the world, is god's gift to humanity. [applause] [end video clip] patricia: wilson never would have said that. wilson was a religious man but he never tried to impose his religious beliefs on the united states and that is george w. bush using god to trump the founding

about nixon or whether you talk about kennedy or whether you talk about clinton, we have presidents that seem to be in politics for the right reason, but presidents that also have a fatal flaw. richardwn. >> people in high office tend to not want to lay themselves open to their enemies and acknowledge embarrassing things or mistakes that they have made. they tend to want to lie when they feel like they can get away with it. all those things have been around long before watergate and still are around. >> it was an age-old story of an abuse of power and forgetting that you're accountable to the people that put you there. there will be more and we'll survive. >> what pulses through the nixon story is the question why. when he was elected, the good will of the nation and the world, it was his. that's the sadness of the nixon presidency of what could have been. >> woodward and bernstein are the most famous journalists of our age. their names will always be associated with the downfall of a president. 40 years later, a moment to ask what the greatest political scandal in modern history means to us. it's an evolutionary tale and we've evolved. and we're older. bob and i brought very differ

bill clinton's narrative was, i'm allowed certain civil defenses even though i am president of the united states. richard nixon was the constitution be damned. i'm the president and if i do it, it counts and itatters and it's legal. that's what donald trump is doing and why it is going down a road of impeachment. >> it's basically when we don't know what to do. i've said this about this president all along. the constitution wasn't written for a president like this. it was written for a moral man or woman. it was written for someone who had a sense of shame. it was written for parties and organizations and branches that didn't want to see their power usurped. everything in political science and history tells us congress is battling with the president to make sure that he doesn't usurp their authority and yet we have this congress that is perfectly happy to lay down and do whatever it is he wants. we are in a constitutional crisis because no one is doing their one job. and we don't know what the answer will be if the president finally pulls a trigger, gets rid of mueller, says he's going to pardon himself. we ha

going into that obstruction charge in which richard nixon was impeached, or was about to get impeached. that was one of the charges against president clinton. this is not new. >> obstruction is a problem. >> it is a huge problem for him and that's the breaking news for me in that pattern. >> let me ask you very calmly, do you think that the fact that the president, now according to this letter from his counsel, did participate in writing the letter that it presents a problem for him? >> it absolutely presents a problem, and i read through the 20 pages. it seems pretty ridiculous to me that his attorneys are attempting to argue that the president is somehow above the law, yet the president is sworn to uphold the constitution. i'm not sure if those two things are aligned, right? remember, this is the president that has argued, for the most part, about the rule of law and justice and how important and essentially critical those things are to who we are as a society, yet his attorneys are now somehow arguing, yeah, that's okay for everybody else except for the president. i think the constitution is pretty clear that no one in this country, reg

richard nixon was subpoenaed for those tapes back in 1974. he had to turn them over. bill clinton was subpoenaed back in 1998. he avoided the serving of the subpoena by finally agreeing to doing testimony remotely, four hours with ken starr. other presidents have been subpoenaed. other presidents have complied. this is about whether a president can personally be forced to personally testify, has never been detested by the courts, and it seems clear that rudy giuliani wants to fight it if it comes to it. >> that delay, it could delay the case. is that good or bad for the white house? >> that's a good question. i don't know. it could take months or years to go all the way through the courts. we know since this letter was written back in january that actually robert mueller has been ready to talk to the president for quite some time, but it's been the president's team that has been resisting. >> great reporting by tara this morning. let's talk about the secret memo leaked from trump's legal team which says that the president cannot obstruct justice because he is the president. is tha

remember, in the 1970s, richard nixon was forced from office because he was going to be impeached from office because of watergate. in 1998, bill clintonimpeached due to the monica lewinsky investigation. it is not only wrong by historical framer standards but congresses in our lifetime have recognized presidents can obstruct justice. >> they are distracting it by making the argument about indictments or not. that is not the issue here. >> mueller has more or less indicated that he would be bound by policy which currently says sitting presidents cannot be indicted. so there is no real possibility, i think, that there is going to be a criminal case against donald trump while he is president. but still the broader question of whether he has the right to do that is sort of a profound issue in american life. >> we can debate that. on the issue of pardoning people are all caught up whether or not the president can pardon himself. the constitution is crystal clear. you can't, period. the president has no power there. what's the history in terms of the self pardoning, though? we're having this discussion. where was that during richard nicks o

clinton was in trouble and got impeached by the house. i saw the disarray. i was hold enough to see what happened when richard nixon was driven out.et the process work and when it's all decided i'll have more to say, but at this point i don't want to be speculating. >> sure. and finally, governor, i was just in ohio over the weekend and, you know, the topic of discussion among everyone i met, will lebron james still be a cleveland cavalier come october. governor, i got to ask. will he? >> well, i'd like to do an executive order to force him to stay in ohio, but i don't know if it will mean much. i want to say this about lebron james. i mean, this is a terrific guy. what he's done in the community, the way he's conducted himself on the court, i mean, he's really a truly, truly remarkable guy and a great role mod eel at time when we need role models, he's one of them. i hope he stays but we of course wish him all the best. >> governor john kasich, all the best. >> thank you very much. >> coming up why president trump's campaign manager says trial to fire sessions. >> and seems like everyone's weighing in about separating children ex

richard nixon's library is based there. it was sort of the solid republican largely very heavily populated region -- >> not a purple district. >> no. until 2016, when hillary clintonery f narrowly in the presidential election. therefore, democrats really believe they've got a chance there and because it is such a densely populated area, there are four congressional districts that touch orange county. so democrats are focusing on all of them. seeing if they can make some inroad and maybe knock off a few republican districts. now, rohrabacher is the only one of these republicans who represent orange county who is still in the running. two other republicans have decided to retire. rather than face these changing demographics. so rohrabacher is down there in a district that is, joyou know, definitely no longer the majority white district it long was. starting to become majority/minority. he's an odd character as you said, very much out on his own especially in terms f s of his coziness with russia. very, very pro-russia. believes the united states should have closer ties to the russian government. he's gotten himself caught up to some degree in the special counsel pro

. >> the president clinton for example, he was charged with obstruction in one of his impeachment articles in the house. and richard nixon with one count of obstruction of justice. wouldn't others come back to the lawyers and say this is not true at all? and it gives the democrats a terrific talking point. >> we don't know where this will go in terms of the legal fight. it is not really clear if the letter is referring to the investigation of michael flynn or of trump himself and i think there's a lot of ambiguity still within the text that really needs to be looked at. >> what does it mean in terms of a grand jury subpoena? as you know, the president does not sit down for it to be to have been some consideration within the team maybe can subpoena the president, his lawyers have pushed back on that saying that special counsel does not have the authority under the article and to issue a subpoena to a sitting president. certainly will be a big fight. >> it will be a big fight, it already has been a big fight. we have seen republicans on capitol hill doing everything they possibly can to discredit the investigation. they wa

richard nixon referenced obstruction of justice, acting to impede and obstruct an investigation and certainly the republican majority in the house in 1998, article 3 of their impeachment against bill clinton, referenced obstruction of justice, and it, you know, the question of whether that ultimately would hold in a court of law may be somewhat secondary unless you believe robert mueller's going to challenge the justice department rulings in the '70s and the '90s that you can not indict a sitting president. ultimately, these questions will go before congress and they have twice now, in recent memory, said that they believe obstruction of justice is an impeachable offense. >> i want to touch on just a detail in this letter, bill. the president's attorneys acknowledge he did dictate his son's misleading statement about that trump tower meeting with the russians that was in the summer of 2016. that's not what the president's attorney or press secretary sarah sanders told the american people. they denied trump had any involvement. >> yeah, that is a striking concession. when you read through the letter, i've done it quickly, it's not a letter designed to persuade robert mueller or any serious

bill clinton said this most eloquently at president nixon's funeral. it is time to judge richardixon on his entire record, and his record i think shows he was a peace maker. host: he died in 1994. do you recall your final conversation with hinl? guest: i was supposed to dine with him the day before, and i had to cancel. but he was very upbeat. he was never very retrospective or intro spective. he was always looking forward. and as you know he came to be a key adviser to president clinton during the breakup of the soviet ubeion and developments in china also wrote numerous best sellers on foreign policy in his retirement years. ask me about my reverence for nixon. it in a sense is almost nonpolitical. it has to do with ask his resilience, with his persistance. it's an american story. defeated, knocked down, disgraced, he still kept coming back. a man is not finished when he's defeated, nixon wrote. he is only finished when he quits. i subscribe to that. host: on the democrat's line from michigan. henry you're next with roger stone joining us in florida. go ahead with your question

subpoenas the president, there is clear precedent, clinton versus jones supreme court case and earlier the unanimous u.s. versus nixon watergate case, requiring richardixon to comply with a subpoena and turn over the watergate tapes. there is no debate at all about whether or not the president would be required to testify, if he is handed a subpoena. no president wan to beanded that subpoena. clinwahaed that ca starr.st buy ken a limiteds negotiated time the president was able to testify from the white house. he did not have to have the indignity of walking to the grand jury room. lawyers sitting next to them, which is not what you would have if you went to the grand jury. watched itr is live on tv. what we are seeing this loud back and forth, all just loud negotiating tacticsfairly predi. mueller has subpoena power and the president does not want to be subpoenaed. heouher dot voluntarily. host: ru giuliani directly involved in this process. what you imagine his role is in trying to negotiate? guest: he is obviously a very good negotiator. he is also someone who i think ear.the president's i think what rudy has been doing in the last couple of weeks,

the fbi director who decided to guess that hillary clinton was going to win and he wanted to protect himself in the fullness of time and richard nixoner 1960, which was such a narrow race, said that everybody -- when you have a race that close everyone has 25 theories and if it's that close any one of them can believe right but we're pretty close on this one and we're in an era that is always going to -- we're going to talk about as long as the english language is spoken and we have a new insight as to why it's here. >> jon meacham, thank you, the book a run away number one best-seller. >> great father's day gift. >> if you love your father you will buy "the soul of america." >> it's important bibly liicall >> one of my favorites came from brother pat buchanan when i asked him on air, why didn't you challenge illinois because kennedy stole illinois. pat's response? "because we stole kentucky, joe." i love pat. >>> still ahead, new legal troubles for the president and his family. the new york attorney general's office is suing the trump foundation alleging vast illegal activity. the "washington post's" david fahrenthold has been repo

richard nixon to turn over his tapes. he may be argument you cannot subpoena a sitting president. he lost. he lost in the u.s. supreme court in the nixon tapes case. in clinton v. jones, bill clinton a the argument that you cannot make me testify. it looked like it was not going to go anywhere, so he relented and testified "voluntarily." -- it isent that written to a gullible, nonlegal public. it does not make any genuine legal arguments. in fact, there is a frightening -- it doesn there not matter how corrupt the president's motives are, he can do anything with the apartment of justice as if it were his own private law firm. he saysan even use the pardon power. of course, he can use the pardon power as a way of showing mercy to people. it like a giant, loud elephant whistle. basically telling people if you have my back and do not cooperate with the investigations into what russia did and what i did and what i knew and when i knew it, i will have your back. it almost sounds like he is saying he can pardon himself and, thereby, evade impeachment. first of all, the impeachment clause itself says the pardon power does not extend to cases of impeachment. if all