and when clive lloyd told me that tony greig was coming on this world series thing, i said, "tony greig got to meet the man, i recognised that tony greig was not racist. tony greig was brought up in a society that made him think certain things without him actually knowing that what he was thinking was wrong. i met tony greig. i became very good friends with tony greig. i became good friends with his family. and tony greig was certainly not the person that i thought of in my mind. and again, stephen, that is education. without meeting tony greig, i would not have been educated enough about the man. i only had a thought, south african using the word grovel, meaning that he's almost like he's going to keep a black man down. that was just a thought in my head. i got educated by meeting him. that's what education is all about. that is a very interesting way of looking at it, because it makes me feel that perhaps, when we see the way in which black athletes are targeted today with racist abuse, particularly online, you're suggesting that you actually feel some of those people being abusive, b