i don't have firsthand knowledge. >> clyde goodman employed the services of job kelsey. i don't know if you come across john kelsey. he is one of the most eminent lawyers in the country where one of the most expensive in the country and celebrities. it seems to me a journalist on the news of the world who is pleading guilty here to a crime using the mitigation probably the most expensive lawyer in the country which obviously leads most people to suspect the legal fees were not being paid for bye himself but were being paid for news international. now, given that he was pleading guilty to a criminal act, phone hacking which leads to the dismissal, gross misconduct, why on earth was news international even thinking about, even dreaming about paying the legal fees of someone who was engaged in criminal activity? and permitted something that was clearly gross misconduct? >> mr. davies, i don't have any direct knowledge of the specific legal arrangement with mr. goodman in 2007. so i cannot answer that specific question. what i can say is because i asked the question as well

i think clyde goodman called foul of phone hacking because he was getting on a bit. he was royal editor had a really high salary with money of people who were 25 years old would've taken his job and spent longer on doorsteps and work harder. so we're constantly snapping on his heels to stay one step ahead of them, got in a phone hacking. >> is there also competition with competing titles? >> very much so. the whole problem with working for a weekly newspaper is he got a story on wednesday and got three days to sit on it, hoping no one else is going to steer from you. the number of times i've spent the second half of the week locked in a hotel room in a foreign country with somebody, for example, princess diana spent two weeks with evan amsterdam just so no one else could get to them. so yes, they are constantly in van from other journalists. i remember buying up a couple who won a marriage, who was a blind date marriage. and we flew them through the bahamas. it was a lovely story. we spent two weeks they are. we spent the entire two weeks fighting men from the feet s

clyde goodman, news of the world reporter is made a scrape goat through very widely used tactics.u are aware of this in april 2007; correct? >> yeah, it seems to be born out by -- >> you were thinking they got far, mr. morgan, a very widespread practice, loads of journalists were doing it. i mean, you -- making segments there to suggest at least you were basing yourself on personal knowledge even if what other people may have told you. would you agree? >> no, i wouldn't agree. >> why did you say he was made the scapegoat for a very wide spret practice? >> i would have thought that subsequent events shows he was made the scapegoat. >> in april of 2007, we were looking at one individual, mr. goodman, and one private investigator, that not many people were saying it was a very widespread practice and that individuals happen to know that it was a very widespread practice. did you see -- >> i see your point, but the point i'm making is that the rumor mill, which is always extremely noisy and often not entirely accurate was starting ever since this blew up with endless rumors, and subse

i think clyde goodman called foul of phone hacking because he was getting on a bit. he was royal editor had a really high salary with money of people who were 25 years old would've taken his job and spent longer on doorsteps and work harder. so we're constantly snapping on his heels to stay one step ahead of them, got in a phone hacking. >> is there also competition with competing titles? >> very much so. the whole problem with working for a weekly newspaper is he got a story on wednesday and got three days to sit on it, hoping no one else is going to steer from you. the number of times i've spent the second half of the week locked in a hotel room in a foreign country with somebody, for example, princess diana spent two weeks with evan amsterdam just so no one else could get to them. so yes, they are constantly in van from other journalists. i remember buying up a couple who won a marriage, who was a blind date marriage. and we flew them through the bahamas. it was a lovely story. we spent two weeks they are. we spent the entire two weeks fighting men from the feet s