back with general colin powell, waterboarding.he president kind of defends it i guess in the book. do you? >> when we were going through this, america had just been struck. and we were trying to make sure we were protecting the american people in every way possible. and the intelligence agencies came forward with some procedures they wish to use to get as much information as they can. and we all talked about these and we were concerned about the fact that, you know, we had responsibilities under international law. and i think all of us felt that waterboarding was, if not over the line, very close to the line. but the president of the united states, who has the responsibility to protect the american citizens felt that in that circumstance waterboarding was appropriate and as he clearly said he approved it. he takes responsibility for the approval of it. i think subsequently as you kind of go down the years and take a look at what has happened over the years, i think it can be called now torture. you'll know that the cia stopped doi

our guest is general colin powell. don't go away. >> larry: we're back with general powell.ted states troops in afghanistan, the hundred thousand. obama says, there will be a drawdown of the surge troops in july. reports now say the united states is eying a plan to end combat mission there in 2014. >> well, 2014 -- >> larry: is this his vietnam? >> no. we shouldn't make these kinds of comparisons. they are totally different situations. 2014 is the date agreed upon in general by president karzai and by our administration. >> larry: seems forever off. >> well, several years off. now, what president obama has said when he sent in the additional troops was that he would take a look in july and try to begin or begin, a little unclear exactly what he -- what the various officials in the administration say, but begin the drawdown of our overall troop level in afghanistan in july of next year. that's when he would make the decision and begin. it doesn't mean we're pulling out a hundred thousand troops. i don't know how many troops we'll pull out. and he has said and his associates h

>> i will tell you, brian, what i told my wife when i first met colin powell. i went down to the pentagon the very day eorehe retired from 35 years in the military. he's a joint -- chairman of the joint chiefs. and we were just kind of sizing each up for the collaboration. and i went home and my wife said, well what is he like? and i said colin powell is the most comfortable man in his skin whom i have ever met and what i would tell somebody is pretty much expect a direct, casual gure with no guile, no side to him. >> so, how did you get to all this? where did you first get interested in being a writter? >> well, i wanted to be a writer ever since i was a kid. finally, i backed into writing, i guess. i was, for many years, chief speech writer for governor an later vice president nelson rockefeller. did that for a long tme, as i say, and started out the first five years i loved it. the next three years i tolerated it. the final three years i hated it. it had nothing do with my boss, it was that i wanted to write my own books and finally, rather late in life, i w

." >> reporter: general colin powell was joint chief's chairman and supported "don't ask don't tell" when it was enacted 17 years ago and today he told nbc news when it comes to repeal times have changed. >> and if that's who our military leaders think is appropriate for our armed forces i'm supportive of it. >> reporter: in seattle, the major looks forward to once more, openly serving in the air force. >> soon, i'll be known just as a flight nurse, again, instead of a lesbian flight nurse. >> reporter: in a white house statement tonight, president obama urged the senate to pass the repeal of "don't ask don't tell" and the current lame duck session. but it's not clear democrats have the vote. and prospects get even worse if it gets kicked over to the next congress, brian? >> all right, jim miklaszewski starting us off. thanks. >>> for the first time since the election it changed the balance of power in washington, president obama met today with the new republican leadership and with the democrats who are getting used to the idea of being the minority in the house. our chief white hou

earlier i spoke with retired colonel lawrence wilkerson former chief of staff to secretary of state colin powell to get his we have a quick update on a story that we've been following for about a month here in the show pastor terry jones has agreed to cancel burn the koran day scheduled for this saturday in gainesville florida and the pastor says the instead of burning korans he's going to fly to new york to meet with the a mom over the planned mosque near ground zero to the islamic center in new york has sparked a major upper across the country and there are also reports now that donald trump has offered to buy the building where the islamic center was scheduled to be built now as you may recall we've spoken with pastor terry jones here on this show about a month ago you can watch his interview on why he thought the burning of. iran was needed thank you to dot com slash the loaner ship but again everyone know that pastor terry jones has for now agreed not to burn korans on this saturday and he does for now claim that the mom new york has also agreed to move the so-called ground zero mosque now

politics colin powell supports obama's initiative and stressed the need to verify russian nuclear activities something that would be impossible if the agreement fails powell said that all concerns had been addressed by the executive and there was no need to hold up the ratification process. it's been a hailed as a coup for u.s. national security the capture of a terror suspect accused of plotting to set off a bomb at a christmas tree lighting ceremony but as art he's honest reports some critics believe it's a case of entrapment with agents having groom the nineteen year old somali born american for the crime. this winter season the f.b.i. celebrates the reason the arrest of a potential terrorist but a little something is wrong with this picture over the eighteen months they cultivated have the alleged plot or as a teenager the bomb he planted a fake and the f.b.i. allegedly manipulated him into committing a crime entrapment is not illegal entrapment is getting someone to do something that they would normally do the guy named mohammed how does e-mails tracked by authorities while they waited

general colin powell is right. for the safety of america, we need to ratify the start treaty. >> ifill: senator richard durbin, senator john barrasso, thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> ifill: still to come on "the newshour." >> woodruff: still to come on the "newshour": deficit commission chairs simpson and bowles; the mexican drug wars-- north and south of the border; plus, the autobiography of mark twain. but first, the other news of the day. here's hari sreenivasan in our newsroom. >> sreenivasan: the obama administration will not pursue offshore drilling off the east coast and in the eastern gulf of mexico, after all. the interior department announced the policy today, reversing a drilling plan laid out last march, before the b.p. oil spill in the gulf. the updated plan means no new drilling proposals off the east coast for at least seven years. wall street had a big day, after some encouraging economic news. the dow jones industrial average gained more than 249 points-- the most in three months--

colin powell, nobody is arguing that it's their fault. what we're told is there are other people who are so offended by their very presence because the code of military justice will stay in place. anybody who misbehaves sexually is subject to being kicked out quite similarly. we are told their very presence will anow people and -- annoy people and will distract them. what does that say about our military? the gentleman from texas, mr. gohmert, said anybody that's allowed gays in is the end of civilization. they didn't change it, they need every human being they can get who's willing to serve. and the israeli defense forces have suffered no deterioration. what we are told is -- i ask for 15 seconds. 10 seconds. i must say it is not that the young members of the military who face death, who face the destruction of their comrades, they're not the ones who are upset about this. it's our colleagues on the other side who are impugning their own unease about the presence of gay and lesbian people to the young people in the military who i think a

. >>> colin powell and will. iam are taking part in a star- studded evening to raise money. ktvu's allie rasmus live in san francisco with that story. >> reporter: that event is still going on right now inside the center here in san francisco. right now inside the concert hall, there are about 3,000 people listening to folk- singing legend neil young perform. tickets for this event cost between $250 and $5,000 a piece. all the money raised helps pay for a new ucsf children's hospital, but neil young wasn't the only celebrity that donated his time and talents to the cause. >> even though people scream about it, i've had it for the last 52 years ago. >> reporter: general colin powell got a standing ovation at tonight's fundraiser. he criticized the current state of the country's health care system. >> intolerable we do not have universal health care. >> reporter: he said as long as there are people who can't afford health care, there will be a need for philanthropists and private donors to help. >> we won't be successful if we don't keep our kids healthy. >> reporter: it was a

. >>> colin powell and will. iam are taking part in a star- studded evening to raise money. ktvu's allie rasmus live in san francisco with that story. >> reporter: that event is still going on right now inside the center here in san francisco. right now inside the concert hall, there are about 3,000 people listening to folk- singing legend neil young perform. tickets for this event cost between $250 and $5,000 a piece. all the money raised helps pay for a new ucsf children's hospital, but neil young wasn't the only celebrity that donated his time and talents to the cause. >> even though people scream about it, i've had it for the last 52 years ago. >> reporter: general colin powell got a standing ovation at tonight's fundraiser. he criticized the current state of the country's health care system. >> intolerable we do not have universal health care. >> reporter: he said as long as there are people who can't afford health care, there will be a need for philanthropists and private donors to help. >> we won't be successful if we don't keep our kids healthy. >> reporter: it was a

today by the america's promise alliance, a nonprofit group founded by former secretary of state colin powell. at an event in washington with education secretary arne duncan, powell said he was encouraged but there's much more to be done. >> what we have to do is get everybody in the country-- businesses, political organizations, nonprofit organizations-- to all come together in a coordinated way to get into the lives of our kids, to get into our schools and give those schools resources that the kids need in order to be successful in life. there's no child that starts out in life wanting to be unsuccessful. no child starts out wanting to be a dropout. >> warner: among the good news, the national graduation rate hit 75% in 2008, up from 72% in 2001. and the number of so-calld dropout factories-- high schools where fewer than 60% of freshmen graduate four years later-- declined to 1750 in 2008, down from some 2,000 in 2002. 29 states improved their graduation rates through such approaches as setting up early warning systems to flag struggling students. raising the compulsory attendance age, tak

colin powell says that you will be rivetted by chosen.a story of one of the most savage battles in american history. >> one of the film producers us talk about that. stay tuned. fox 5 morning news continues at 8:00. >>> winter weather not just in the form of cold temperatures either. snow did fall in parts of the area overnight, leaving behind a bit of a mess on the roads. this is what it looked like this morning at reservoir and fox hall roads in northwest washington, just outside of georgetown. it is 8:00 on this tuesday morning. good morning, i'm steve chenevey. >> and i'm allison seymour. we found a good amount of snow in montgomery county. enough to coat the cars. this photo snapped around 2:30 on the streets of the gaithers >> well tony perkins with us this morning. he and tucker have been working hard to get us through the morning. are we done with the snow now? >> not entirely. there are snow showers off to the west. but whatever we see today is light snow shower activity, maybe some flurries and that's it, little or no accumulati

colin powell, nobody is arguing that it's their fault. what we're told is there are other people who are so offended by their very presence becausthe code omilitary justice will stay in place. anybody who misbehaves sexually is subject to being kicked out quite similarly. we are told their very presence will anow people and -- annoy people and will distract them. what does that say about our military? the gentleman from texas, mr. gohmert, said anybody that's allowed gays in is the end of civilization. they didn't change it, they need every human being they can get who's willing to serve. and the israeli defense forces have suffered no deterioration. what we are told is -- i ask for 15 seconds. 10 seconds. i must say it is not that the young members of the military who face death, who face the destruction of their comrades, ey're not the ones who are upset about this. it's our colleagues on the other side who are impugning their own unease about the presence of gay and lesbian people to the young people in the military who i think are bet

colin powell says it today. they say no way. no unemployment benefits for those looking for jobs. can't get it with unemployment at 9%, 10%. this is outrageous. this is not the way to govern. party of no has gotten worse. i think it is a shame. it is just beyond -- beyond comprehension. >> gosh, you're just so cute when you're angry, eliot. i know it's not funny. i don't know why i'm smiling -- because i got stuck on the image of being held hostage by 42 republicans. talk about a bad date. >> i certainly agree on that one. >> to get to your point, i assumed when i heard there was opposition to the start treaty there must be legitimate concerns. i asked around and i'm convinced by the people i've spoken with who are knowledgeable certainly with this particular treaty that it is important to do it. on the tax issue alone, let's just say, let me be wild and crazy and propose a compromise that seems to be, you know, the republicans are using this as leverage obviously, doing it rather successfully, but you know what why not say, we're going to do what's best for the country and let's

he was joined by the singer and song writer and general colin powell. the concert was a sellout, as you can imagine. it raised $2.8 million for a new home at mission bay. the 183-bed facility is expected to hope in 24 teen. it is part of a larger complex for women, children and cancer patients. a great event tonight. >> terrific. the weather is not so terrific out there. >>> sandhya patel is back with the full forecast. >> yeah, and by morning it is going to be a murky, slick start for the bay area commute. here is the live doppler 7hd. we do have a few showers in the east bay. places like fremont and paseo padre road. getting wet down toward mill pea tis. -- milpitas. oakland and hayward. as you head south, san jose, damp. santa cruz area is also getting light showers. it was anything but light from the camera earlier this evening. you can see we got a good soaking across parts of the bay area. upwards of over an inch across some regions of -- as i showed you earlier in the broadcast. briefly got good downpours. numbers in the 50s and the 60s. fog and

. >> way, i have one more question on colin powell. he was here today and meeting with the president. is the white house looking for sort of a heavy here to help push this through? do you think colin powell is the person? >> let's be clear. the number of people i think, any estimation you can think of heavy hitters on either the democrat or republican side, have weighed in in strong support of ratifying the new s.t.a.r.t. treaty. certainly general powell is among those. general powell, secretary -- former secretary state colin powell, call him either one i guess, if somebody obviously whose advice the president seeks on a radio basis. he will be here, as you said, to talk about national security issues, particularly around the new s.t.a.r.t. treaty, as well as to talk to the president and vice president about his work on dropouts and education, which obviously is a passion of his. and important work that he is doing on behalf of the country. but i think if you look at the number, i think there's a reason why 75% of these american peopl

colin powell, secretary gates, they support this bill. 100 universities and college presidents have come in support of this bill. it's very narrow, and it's for children. >> reporter: what about the education and the military benefits? >> well, the military, that's really malarkey. the migration policy has looked at the numbers. maximum at the absolute outside maybe 31,000 people would end up enlisting. it's not even a drop in the bucket in the military's enlistment. it's really more a political effort to try to make it more palatable for republicans. and, i mean, we haven't really touched on the fact that it's... there's nothing in this bill that relates to enforcement to blunt the effect that amnesties have in pulling new illegal immigrants. yes, the bill doesn't apply the people not here yet. that's not correct. that's not the magnet effect amnesties have. they send a message, come on in, keep your head down and you'll get the next amnesty. >> let's talk first tact military. with all due respect to the migration policy institute, i would rather vote with what the department of defense

and senate leadership, all the relative committee shares, and our military leaders, including colin powell. in 2010, before the national hispanic caucus, president obama stated he would do whatever it takes to support the efforts to pass this bill, so he can sign it into law on behalf of students seeking a college education and those who wish to serve in our country's uniform. it is the right thing to do. steve li is a junior in city college who aspires to be a health care worker. he graduated from george washington high school as well as hoover middle school, where he was an editor and reporter for the school newspaper and ran on the track and cross-country team. he is scheduled to graduate in september 2011. he entered the u.s. when he was about 12 years old and was ordered removed from the united states to peru when he was 14. he has no knowledge of the deportation because he was a derivative beneficiary of his mother's political asylum application. when the judge denied that her status, that denied his status in the u.s. where he was a minor. he was never reformed -- he was never infor

. >>> here's general colin powell addressing the crowd during a concert to benefit the children's hospitalmportantly, i have a new generation ofvesting that we have. >> the former secretary of state was on a list of former guests including will young of the black-eyed peas. >> we have temperatures in the 50s as you wake up tomorrow morning with an expected 53 in san francisco, 54 in redwood city and au50 in gilroy. the seven-day forecast, showers are going to be remaining in the forecast for thursday and also into friday. the forecast of the weekend is going to be clearing out. it's a look again at the temperatures for tomorrow. >> actually, they look a little better. >> yeah, not too bad. we're going to get some sun tomorrow with just some light showers. >> then we move to a nicer weekend, correct? >> yes. i can't wait for the weekend. >> thanks for choosing nbc bay area news tonight. >> we will see you tomorrow. bye bye. om

every former defense secretary, secretary of state on the republican party from george schultz to colin powell thinks it's essential we pass this treaty. get out of the way. there's too much at stake for america's national security. and don't tell me about christmas. i understand christmas. i've been a senator for a long time. i've been there many years where we go right up to christmas. there's ten days between now and christmas. i hope i don't get in the way of your christmas shopping, but this is the nation's business. this is national security at stake. act, act. >> reporter: and right there at the united nations where wikileaks cables say that the u.s. spied on other diplomats, the vice president said he does not think there's been any substantive damage, just embarrassment. brian? >> part of andrea mitchell's powerful conversation with the vice president today. thanks. >>> we wanted to let you know the full interview will air tomorrow on andrea mitchell reports on msnbc. that's at 1:00 eastern time. >>> back to that tax deal. turns out the american people like it. that's one of the numbe

president obama met withcall in paul today and a number of former high-ranking officials -- colin powell -- trying to rally the troops around getting a start treaty re-signed. you have written about u.s. and russian relations. your sense of how much of the party this is and can the president get this done in this lame duck congress? >> of course he can. i think every living secretary of state from both political parties and several administrations support this, as well as a virtually our entire military establishment it means -- it means that it is in our nation's best interests. we are not doing the russians any favors. this is for us, and that is what these leaders are saying. what is driving the opposition is in extreme elements of their party. they are trying to keep the far right happy at the expense of what is in america's interest. encouraged by statements that senator john mccain has made and a few others have made that perhaps they are republicans -- they are republicans. they will not support this treaty. all we need is six or seven republican votes to reach the 2/3 required by

former secretary of state colin powell met with president obama yesterday. powell has said failing to ratify the treaty could leave the u.s. in a vulnerable position. >>> and one more note from capitol hill, where republicans are vowing to get rid of symbolic resolution. you've probably seen these, when a member of congress honors a person or a sports team. yesterday on the house floor, a resolution was passed for golfer chichi rodriguez. the new measure will prevent any such bill from making it to the floor. >>> secretary of state hillary clinton arrived in kyrgystan this morning to meet with government leaders and also greet u.s. troops. she arrived from kazakhstan, where she attended an international security conference and announced a nuclear security deal with the former soviet republic of belarus. >>> a calmer day is in store for the east coast, after deadly weather with twisters, thunderstorms and powerful winds. airline delays in the new york area dragged on for more than five hours. and dozens of homes in the south are now in ruins. here's t.j. wini

one is yamamoto and the other is colin powell. >> guest: you're very astute. it's a big book. and i actuallyew away one gigantic section in the book in which i compared japan's holy war with the islamic holy and antiwestern sentiment. i mean, it took about a year and a year and a half and i decided it was too much and i threw away paragraphs here and there. one was comparing the japanese policymakers and the american policymakers to show the diversity and the capabilities within each side. and the natural comparison which i then removed from the book was colin powell and admiral yamoto the man who conceived and masterminded the attack. and the point is in both cases you have very, very small people. who on principal were opposed to the wars. admiral yamamoto said you're absolutely making a terrible mistake. he tells his superiors to go to war against the united states. you can't win. and yamamoto had been to the u.s. as a naval attache. he knew washington very well. he was an old pro and he went back to the russ-japanese war in 1904-1905. he was also a very innovative tactician. he says you'

just be round the corner what are your thoughts well i think it well when you have people from colin powell to henry kissinger to bill clinton endorsing the start treaty it is a no brainer and prime minister putin is correct that it would be stupid for the republicans to continue to block it but then again they want to block everything i think they're boxed into a corner now because our national security is at stake not only dropping the twenty thousand that are out there publicly that the intelligence community doesn't want to use a number but it's roughly twenty thousand or even more that both countries have down to some more reasonable number but the inspections the inspections that are necessary so that rogue terrorists don't get at these nuclear weapons that would be a disaster if you have terrorist to get at these weapons so for all of those reasons it's a must for the world's security to pass this treaty and i believe that republicans will come around because they too want this charity in the safety of the world it is or they've been dragging their heels so far one of the motives bei

kissinger, george shultz, james baker iii, laurence eagleburger and colin powell. these are secretaries of state for the last five republican presidents. joining together in a detailed analysis of the new start and why the u.s. senate should ratify this treaty. now there are some who may say it's not an issue of the substance but rather we just need more time to consider the provisions. consider this: the treaty was signed on april 8 of this year. the treaty went through extensive and thorough hearings and briefings on the foreign relations committee. the committee favorably reported it out with bipartisan support september 16. in the 34 weeks since the treaty was signed and the 10 weeks since it was reported from the committee on foreign relations, every member of our body has had an opportunity to read the testimony, to explore the content, to consult with the experts, to consult with the administration and to reach a conclusion. in fact, we have had more opportunity to review this treaty than the 100th congress did for the intermediate range nuclear forces treat

and colin powell prefaced it. >> host: thanks for bringing that up. >> guest: thanks, sir. >> host: john republican line. go ahead. >> caller: i think your pending all of the athletes a little too broadly. 1967, i got my appointment from the secretary of the navy as a qualified alternate. i spent most of my youth trying to get into the academy. coming from a state as large as new york, i had three options. i had to tell you the test i took for the entrance examine back then was the hardest that i took bar none. it was the hardest test. better than the s.a.t., maybe the students are getting a pass. there's a lot of people that want to go who are as qualified and anybody else and happen to live in the wrong place at the wrong time in terms of getting a political appointment. >> host: is there a separate test? >> guest: there's not. it's changed since the '60s. there's not a separate test. my point is the number of people who are qualified who are rejected is much, much higher because we have the political agenda or the athletic agenda that we are going with. obviously we can't take everybo

colin powell and vince scowcroft and bob gates and dick cheney, they will all be here, and it was a proud moment for our country, and we did the right thing. had a force to put down a dictator and we set a goal. the goal was to kick him out of kuwait and we did. and we left. we didn't have mission creep. we didn't expand the mission. >> larry: you don't want to think about a legacy. you do?

george schultz to colin powell thinks it is essential to pass this treaty. get out of the way. there is too much at stake for america's national security. and don't tell me about christmas. i understand christmas. i have been a senator for a long time. i have been there many years where we go right up to christmas. there are ten days between now and christmas. i hope i don't get in the way of your christmas shopping, but this is the nation's business. this is a national security at stake. act. act. >> did that go for the tax cut as well? >> we just acted on. >> you had a rough session with house democrats. >> sure i did. >> they say you sold them out, you went in the back room and cut a deal with republicans. >> i was in an interview with another network, i will not mention, not long ago. they said the senate said you sold them out. i said more than 80 will vote for it. 80 senators voted for that deal i allegedly sold them out on. >> 81. >> 81. the house will as well. the people feel very strongly and i don't blame them but we cannot afford to go into next year with everyone's

see a lot of people questioning the president's and then things not going well, he brought in colin powell and did it again. sure, he's on the record for repealing don't ask, don't tell but where is the public pressure on the united states congress? is that a fair criticism? >> i don't think it is. i know because i've worked so hard on this that president obama fully supports the repeal of don't ask, don't tell, that he's been on the phone talking to senators who were questionable and had an effect with that and it was the president and senator reid who decided together notwithstanding the president's desire to ratify the s.t.a.r.t. treaty, get it done, don't let anybody hold it hostage to their votes on the s.t.a.r.t. treaty and then go back to the s.t.a.r.t. treaty. i think the president has shown leadership on this. listen, he's the one who has helped make this repeal possible by saying that he was for appeal as commander in chief. >> we've known each other for a long time. i'm going to ask you to letdown your guard and reflect on a man, senator joseph lieberman, knowns as a pa rye yeah

henry kissinger, george schultz, james baker, yourself, lawrence eagleburger, colin powell, condoleezzatary of defense william cohen. jim baker is on the list somewhere there. >> yeah, he is. >> doug, mr. secretary, let me go to doug on this question. what's the problem with this? why are you questioning it? >> i think a number of those republican officials that you mentioned also raise questions about the treaty. the treaty establishes a link, what they call an interrelationship between offensive force reduction and missile defense. this is something the russians have been asking for for years. they tried it when i helped negotiate the predecessor treaty. the bush administration said, no, that's harmful to the united states, bullet the obama administration said yes. the other thing, the treaty has counting rules. complex counting rules that have the effect of imposing penalties on the united states if we want to convert long-range nuclear systems into long-range conventional systems. >> the pentagon says it's better to create new rockets. if you're going to use it for conventional purp

former secretary of state larry eagleburger, former secretary of state colin powell, former secretary of state jim baker. i mean, you run the list of all of the formers secretaries of state on the republican side, former secretary of state condoleezza rice. they all support this treaty. the military supports this treaty. the leader of the strategic command, current and the past former seven support this treaty. the national intelligence treaty supports this treaty. i -- i really hope that in these waning days of this session, as we approach this holiday season, which is so focused on the concept of renewal and hope and peace, that we could find the ability in the united states senate to embrace in a bipartisan way the security interests of our country, but i want to address particularly the notion about more time on this treaty. we are now in the fifth day of this treaty. let's debate today. even if we had a cloture filing tonight or something, you would still have two days more of debate before that ripens and you vote on it, after which you then have 30 hours of debate, providing th

[laughter] >> i want to thank general colin powell for being with me here today. he's not only a great statesman, and a great public servant, but also a great friend and a great counselor. periodically, i check in with him. i know my entire team, including the vice president checks in with him, because he continues to have an unparalleled sense of our national security needs, and i think really taps into the best impulses of the american people. the first thing that i want to do, i want to congratulation him and his wife alma for the extraordinary work that he's been doing with america promise. which focuses on how can we finally get serious about education reform? because he understands, alma understands, all of us understand, that our kids are going to be competing not just against each other here in this country, but they are competing worldwide. america's promise has been at the forefront on the education reform. they just issued a report building a grad nation that notes that we have made some progress over the last several years in reducing the number of dro