this _ conservatives aim for. to the sunday telegraph, . .. this is _ conservatives aim for. story, because we telegraph,... this is an _ extraordinary story, because we know that the nhs has been struggling to tackle the covert backlog —— like the covid backlog. one of the reasons for that is that one in ten consultants are expected to retire in the next ten months, and one of the triggers for that is that there is a real problem with the structure of their pension scheme. they have a cap, many people have a pension cap, but unfortunately, gps and consultants are actually taxed if they carry on working and putting money into their pension pots. so, quite a lot of them choose to take early retirement. liz truss's plan is to solve that backlog very much around trying to restructure that part of their remuneration, which sounds very laudable, i don't know why nobody has done that before, if it really is that straightforward, evenif it really is that straightforward, even if they have a cat they would not be penalised if they continued working. alongside the cost of living, the

in conservatives these conservatives seemed a little bit odd they're all in the area of government expansionnd regulation. fringe in the 1950s and 60s. buckley was very concerned and making conservatism respectable. going after anti-semitism. going after conspiracy theories could not be part of his movement because of her atheism saying libertarian offspring, most could not be part of his movement because was a narco capitalist privatized everything get rid of the states totally. national security office played a big part in that. buckley conservatism was one of engaged nationalism. american should be strong and be engaged in the world to roll back the soviet union. that meant a large military establishment, a standing army that meant forward defense andnd forward deployment of our troops. then to alliances like nato and the intervention like vietnam. all of which the earlier rights would have been extremely skeptical if not outright opposed to. the version of american conservatism that bill buckley created. the last part of his legacy was political. working within the republican party the t

conservative leadership matters.e see it at the state level, we see it at the national level. folks, we have been here before. some of you are probably old enough to remember 1980. a failed credit president. recession. soaring inflation. gas prices. same with the grocery store. we had a country that was not respected around the world. sound familiar? and then what happened? we have one of the greatest presidents in our history, ronald reagan, came and said it is going to be morning again in america. he put in place conservative policies that led to an american resurgence. and, folks, that is what we need now. we need that again today. and you as nevadans can be leaving the country out of this dusk of decline, into a dawn of a new day, and help begin the american resurgence right here, right now in your states. and you can do that by electing adam to the u.s. senate to fight joe biden's woke agenda, and sheriff joel embargo to lead your state here in nevada. i said conservative leadership matters. we saw that at the f

>> 20 years ago i found this institute to the center for conservative women to prepare, promote conservative views, not that we didn't have great conservative women leaders but i don't think we promoted our leaders as well as we do now and we certainly didn't hold them up as role models for young women. so the trope is president reagan and president bush and what to do. i'm an attorney and i cared about education and it seemed like there was a need back then to focus on our great conservative women leadersand to use them as models . all these years i've been working with young women. thousands of them, hundreds that have gotten close to. and over those years it's always been incredible to me how sharp, how smart, how articulate and gracious some of these young women are so ice good to notice some common things that have happened in there. upbringing and their families and at the same time many of our supporters and other friends said how do these young women turn out so wonderfully . i thought i need to write a book. i need to share what i've learned over these years about a good way to rais

the conservative membership once. is the conservative membership once. successful, but there's a point which and work out whether those claims are legitimate.— which and work out whether those claims are legitimate. that's my old atch and claims are legitimate. that's my old patch and enter— claims are legitimate. that's my old patch and enter the _ claims are legitimate. that's my old patch and enter the area _ claims are legitimate. that's my old patch and enter the area well - claims are legitimate. that's my old patch and enter the area well and i patch and enter the area well and this particular, this counsel, and they— this particular, this counsel, and they don't— this particular, this counsel, and they don't feel like they're consulted. they were told that not only has _ consulted. they were told that not only has rishi sunak been appealing to conservative members, there are also appealing to local members and constituency isjust also appealing to local members and constituency is just next door and it's been a — constituency is just next door an

some of our wonderful conservative speakers. once they pass you need to talk about margaret thatcher. suppose margaret thatcher stayed home to watch her get not that there's anything wrong with that. it's a very noble profession think of the difference in england, in the world. she partnered with ronald reagan. they did incredible things. and, of course, claire lewis booth. she was the age of my great-grandmother, probably your great, great grandmother because you're younger, unbelievable the things she did back in when women were not at the party. we have big picture here of our office. it's a 1944 republican national convention. she's like this. she's giving the keynote speech. she lows into roseau, president was up and said you lied us into war. its military family. she was so ahead of her times, a congresswoman when there were like ten. she was editor of "vanity fair." she was basically homeschooled. her father was an itinerant musician. he left the family before she was grown so the move from town to town. she had four year

these conservatives seemed a littlebit odd . the intellectual tides were all in the area of government expansion andregulation . figures like frederick hayek, milton friedman, fringe in the 1950s and 60s. buckley was very concerned in making conservatism respectable. and so he began drawing fences around his version of american conservatism . and going after anti-semitism , going after conspiracy theories . sayings that iran could be part of his movement because of her atheism. saying that the libertarians austrian economist could be part of his movement because he was an and arco capitalist. we would privatize everything,get rid of the state totally.national security also played a part in this . buckley's conservatism was one of engaged nationalism. america should be strong, america should be powerful and defend itself but it had to be engaged in the world to defeat and rollback thesoviet union and that the large military establishment, a standing army . that meant forward defense and forwarddeployment of our troops . it meant

why should conservatives care about the history of american conservatives? well, we'll save the country or not. i think we're coming to an inflection point like we always like all great countries do and and i think if we lose the country to the left then we lose what the country is is all about. from me it's a country, you know the constitutional declaration rooted in natural law. and the principles that flow from that should be carried through in our policies to make sure that our country realizes it's it's it's true potential. and if and if we lose that then we lose the left and then we become like other countries. in other democracies so, i think it's extremely important, but we're not anywhere close to where we need to be as a movement to be able to realize these things. you know, my background is more fiscal based and i worry about inflection points in the future with the social contract and the dollars reserve currency and how much time do we have before we can really put in place some important reforms, but we have to win a lot of arguments in the cou

i think conservatives, conserving things is a step ahead of this thing but you have to win arguments.have to win a majority and you have to haveoee a president willing to stick his or her neck out to get thishi done. i think that's the path of the conservative movement in the moment right now. >> right here please. >> i think matt you made up passing reference to the iraq war. could it could you address now where the republican voters soured on that concept. i ask that because i thought a powerful moment in the 16 campaign was when donald trump really had a moment early on where he just eviscerated that in a very passionate way. i thought it was a shot but i think his history was pretty spot on and i thought it would really resonate. i wondered if you could identify when you thought that was soured upon by republican voters. >> it's a complicated question because i think public opinion really began turning against him after the bombing of the mosque and 2006 and the onset of civil war in iraq. where the war against taking control. and public opinion was ambivalent about the policy in

they want to conservative members... they want to discuss— to conservative members...they want to discuss it again, to try and garner— to discuss it again, to try and garner more votes. it does have echoes— garner more votes. it does have echoes of operation red meat, when boris _ echoes of operation red meat, when borisjohnson was echoes of operation red meat, when boris johnson was clinging on echoes of operation red meat, when borisjohnson was clinging on power earlier— borisjohnson was clinging on power earlier this — borisjohnson was clinging on power earlier this year and immigration was being — earlier this year and immigration was being thrown up again and again, andl was being thrown up again and again, and i think— was being thrown up again and again, and i think we can expect this debate — and i think we can expect this debate to— and i think we can expect this debate to kpo on, certainly, until the end _ debate to kpo on, certainly, until the end of— debate to kpo on, certainly, until the end of the conservative mac leadership contest but probably until the

>> 28 years ago i founded this institute to the conservative women to prepare, promote conservative women. not that we did not have great conservative women's but way back then i don't think we promoted our leaders as well as we do w now. we certainly did not hold them up as role modelsls for young women. so this was after 12 years of president reagan and president bush, what to do? i'm an attorney i really cared about education seemed like there is a need back then to focus on a great conservative women leaders and use them as roled models. all these years have been young women, thousands of them, hundreds and it got close to. over those years interest always credible to me of sharp, how smart, articulate some these gentlemen are. i started to notice them, things that had happened in the upbringing and their families. and at the same time many of our supporters and other friends they cancel wonderfully? i thought i'd need to write a book. i need to share what i have learned over these years about a good way to raise a young woman into a smart articulate to a conservative or sought there

conservative party members to vote forthem. but conservative party members to vote for them.doesn't relate to what most people in the country are concerned about, which is soaring energy bills. liz truss is trying to ——presenters—— yourself as a thatcherite candidate. the problem with tax cuts is that they take months to plan and implement, or as if you give people a significant rise in their benefits or benefits —— emergency benefits, that's a way to help the most vulnerable in this trying time. mil to help the most vulnerable in this trying time-— trying time. all we can do is hope the conservative _ trying time. all we can do is hope the conservative party _ trying time. all we can do is hope l the conservative party membership really do think about what's good for the country and notjust really do think about what's good for the country and not just for the party. for the country and not 'ust for the .a . ., �* , , for the country and not 'ust for the party. that's very optimistic of ou, i party. that's very optimistic of you. i have — party. that's very optimistic of you

so, it is all very well winning over conservative mps, and conservative party— conservative mps, and position at the moment, of course, howls _ position at the moment, of course, howls are _ position at the moment, of course, bowls are only ever a snapshot of public _ bowls are only ever a snapshot of public opinion at the given time. the conservative party will hope that under a new leader they will be able to— that under a new leader they will be able to significantly improve their position— able to significantly improve their position between now and whenever the next _ position between now and whenever the next election is, because if they— the next election is, because if they don't. _ the next election is, because if they don't, they could be in real trouble~ — they don't, they could be in real trouble. the problem they may face is that— trouble. the problem they may face is that with — trouble. the problem they may face is that with the cost of living crisis. — is that with the cost of living crisis. and _ is that with the cost of living crisis, and everything else coming up,

[applause] it's funny because conservatives can laugh.have a good time and we can laugh at ourselves but liberals can't in the book you talk about how liberals just don't appreciate comedy and it's so evident in the late-night shows for the days of johnny carson are over and everyone's just making political statements. why do you think the left is so afraid of comedy? >> well i laugh at myself because there's a lot of material there. [laughter] it's that self-deprecating humor that's critical to what i do because i can't take myself too seriously or people would think i was just an arrogant, i'm not going to say it. so humor disarms people especially on the street in dealing with these radicals. one of the things liberals have done is really tried to police conservative camera recently. jon stewart is very effective at ridicule and he had that run for a while on "the daily show" where he was really moving the needle even on policy. were republicans were terrified of this guy and he was just resting them and they show is very influential a

those of _ conservatives. no, it's certainly not. those of us _ conservatives.onservatives. no, it's certainly not. those of us of a _ conservatives. no, it's certainly not. those of us of a certain - conservatives. no, it's certainly| not. those of us of a certain age will remember the conservative party emerged, but the truth is things are better than that. the conservative parties consistently displace labour as the second—largest party in scotland. however, from about last christmas, around the time of partygate, the conservative party north of the border has been running below 20% of the polls, back in third place behind labour, and that was the decision that was confirmed by the local elections. the truth is the conservative party in scotland, having made some progress over recent years, now finds itself on the back foot once again in the wake of the difficulties across the uk. the scottish conservatives have tried to somehow, not divorce, but separate themselves from the party... separate themselves from the -a �* , separate themselves from the party... i

books and conservative speakers to be heard and be invited to speak. we are concerned about you know, efforts to disrupt that freedom because it boomerangs. it justifies those on the other side who want to impose their own restrictions and they just turn around and point a finger and they sent me a clipping today of a former employee for regnery publishing saint liberals are being hypocrites. we have to defend the right of free speech for all. i say that in fall knowledge that that means that there is a lot of garbage. a lot ofmisinformation . a lot of hate that gets surfaced on social media. that's a mebig difference between now and the 80s. we didn't have social media and that certainly has undermined the idea of public debate and marketplace of ideas. but our argument is as libertarians always is that nobody says you have toaclike it . in fact, on the contrary, the best response to hate speech is counter speech and it is protest and it is, militancy is fine as long as it doesn't involve actually trying to shut down these people as happens too many t

authored and conservative media critic. she has a conservative revolution to remake politics in the 1990's. her book comes out in august. she is among many public contributions to the columnist and cnn has hosted her politics. starting this summer, the associate professor of history and director at the rogers center for of vanderbilt university. finally, sam is the associate professor at colgate, and for our purpose, author of the landmark book. the polarizers, postwar architects of the postwar era. he is also writing for venue such as american prospect, democracy, and plus one, the new york times let it go, fox. this will be a roundtable. each panelist will have about 10 minutes, that should leave us plenty of times for questions from the audience and more discussion in general. >> hello. hope you can hear me. as you can hear, my voice is shot. that is the result of some allergy related albums. it is not covid. i keep saying it's not covid. it's not covid. of course. yes. if i was a psychopath, i would say that and said he

conservatives cannot be likable.re likable then we areo actual real people real people, then we cannot be canceled. because i try to dehumanize us right on the try to say that were and racist and biggest and not even worth the conversation and not even worth be in the industry. if they are able to cancel jesse watters how is jesse watters going to feed his families. [laughter]t >> you have the baby you know. >> will how will jesse watters feed jesse jr. [laughter] is a big problem and so that is why they are so uptight with conservative humor. >> now we live, i'm guessing most of us who are in this religion california's south easiest place to be a conservative. [laughter] [laughter] >> i live in new york. [laughter] >> i know, i get it. and how is this, you talk about getting on the subway. >> but he thought that i was somebody else. [laughter] [laughter] >> right so as long as you were there but. [inaudible]. you have confronted judges in college kids, you asked presidenton trump if he drinks d smoke weed. [laughter

conservative leader candidates. yes, so they laid — conservative leader candidates.laid out _ conservative leader candidates. yes, so they laid out their _ conservative leader candidates. ya: so they laid out their stalls ahead of the election as to who will then enter downing street, and liz truss has gone for very much a sort of optimistic viewpoint, the idea that by cutting taxes, somehow growth will miraculously be achieved, people will have lots more spending money and want to invest in the economy in all sorts of ways that will put us back on our feet, but the naysayers, of which the times reporting is a fair portion of voters, or saying this is not sensible in the light of these horrendous very, very frightening ideas of cost—of—living specifically, energy bills, and the approach of winter, when everybody�*s bills will go up. so it's two people wanting to apparently do their best by the british electorate but going about it into different ways, and it doesn't seem that liz truss, although she is out in front, more and more people are asking questions about the

host: when you say -- to target conservative groups? is the same happening in conservative --? guest: i haven't seen any evidence of that. i have never seen an irs go after liberal groups in america. i have never seen peoples irs status from liberal groups being there's like we saw in the obama administration. caller: good morning. host: go ahead, jack. caller: i am a converted democrat. i have always said we needed a businessman in the white house. one who knew what he was doing. host: go ahead and respond, aaron. guest: i didn't hear a lot of what was said. but that is the irs in the past. that is the best thing we should be doing. overseeing what the irs is spending and how it is allegedly reducing inflation. that is what the bill was called. i expect it will do that. that is the intention of it. i would hope to see they are not overspending -- if there are going to be people -- if there are going to be audited, it should be the wealthy people. it should be large corporations rather than mom and pop shops. i anticipate it is going to be everyday americans. 87,000 government

it is a conservative school. there was an incident that happened last year involving a speaker who came in. he was kind of a more liberal theologian and gave a talk in which he challenged the white students in the audience to be considered the way they think about race. it caused a lot of backlash among alumni and parents who were marine about critical race theory -- who were worried about critical race theory indoctrination. it was kind of a big thing that went to the trustees. the school had a report and decided it was a mistake. we should not bring people who talk about things like that in the future. i was wondering what you thought about that regarding intellectual diversity and things like that. if you have an institution like one that is a specifically conservative school, where is the line between maintaining that conservative perspective and info turning that and infiltrating that perspective with having diversity? cherise: if the board of trustees and parents are getting involved, that is one thing, but

i'm talking to conservatives here.'t get bad it into this violence nonsense. >> i recognize that guy. looks like me. do you want to hear what actual threats sound like? these are anti-police protesters calling for deads and threatening bloods shed in the streets. >> if they think they are going back to the old ways of policing then we are going to take to the streets again and there will be riots. there will be fire, and there will be bloodshed. dan: ways that? there will be bloodshed. how did the activists you heard on this very show giving him chance after chance to condemn violence. >> i just want to get you on the record. >> i'm on the record right now. dandan, what i am telling you is the boston tea party was a riot. dan: why can't you just condemn violence? >> why would i condemn violence? why would i do that? i am not going to condemn or condone it. dan: i'll condemn violence because i don't want people killed or hurt. is that hard? during the summer of 2020. 2,000 police officers were tragically injured. the le

right into what we think of as conservation. yeah, and i mean and just to emphasize these these lands that that couldn't be homesteaded. we're still being exploited both by individual landowners and by corporations who saw them as oh well, you know free trees or free pasture. tell us a little bit about what was happening. just what was happening on the landscape. right. so before these measures go into effect. it's it's free and open for whoever can get to it and there are large herds of cattle or sheep that are moving up the mountains and sometimes they're competing with the other cattle and sheep operators in the in the valley. and so that led to pretty bad over grazing in lots of cases. there's a lot of concern about timber being stolen from these federal lands as well when the first forest reserves as they were initially called were created there were relatively few regulations. and so then the concern was about timber trespass people stealing and i guess to back up one bit of context is there's a great fear at this time in

so you have conservative emancipation or conservative era supporters like senator, edward burke of nebraska and what conservative emancipation has found in the pro-era position was arguments that aligned with their support for private enterprise and their criticisms of the government's involvement in the economy. and so they would often frame their arguments for the era around questions of a citizens right to economic self-fulfillment and that men and women should be able to participate in the marketplace in the same terms. and also there's a little bit well i should also say but conservative emancipation is their understanding rights in terms of negative rights. so seeing rights as being a way to shield individuals from government intrusion in their lives, and there's also a little bit of legal formalism playing out and some of these more conservative arguments for the era which is basically the idea that if sex isn't a valid reason to withhold the right to vote then you can't have sex be a valid reason to withhold other rights like the right to serve on juries and their mind you have to h

traditional conservative view.ues, —— and british values... and we should say nothing but how great our history was, it's all this woke stuff that she's going on about. what's interesting is that she feels like kemi badenoch, a black woman, articulates that fake national pride better than rishi sunak or liz truss. this is quite interesting, but i can't take that point seriously at all, i'm sorry. what about the argument that there's something about this debate that it's become too narrow? it's notjust for the conservative party, but for the public as well, since after all, this is the debate that will help determine who is prime minister? indeed, prime minister of the whole united kingdom, i must point out. i've not read the article, but it seems to me since the one nation tories were expelled by boris johnson for not supporting brexit, what we have is instead of the conservative and unionist party, we have an english national party. the remarks liz truss made about the leader of the scottish parliament today which

he's a conservative republican. you can't understand him without those other interestingly, thomas was against pretty much until the one at virginia. the alliance and number of black conservatives that have been interviewed in o moments of canr will say they understand what they are doing so, i think, thomas is in that regard. yeah, he thinks, for him really, if you go back to the foundational questions about politics and political pessimistism and defeatism and the notion of the economy it would seem like that's a natural force that one could turnn to in his mind. >> so, i'd like to talk more about the black nationalism question. i guess, the question i have is thats thomas is in the black nationalist world as a young man and takes these ideas seriously and makes a turn to the right so on and so forth. in the turn to the white he seems to jettison some that are important. he doesn't want to build thought.al the critical economy is important for black communities. it's an avenue for millerration. that seems to be a

patriot mobile, americas only christian conservative wireless provider.they aren't just a wireless provider, they are political movement. up to 5% of every patriot mobile phone bill goes directly to support a patriot mobiles political action committee. patriot mobile action. to give you a sense of the politics of this group, here's their executive director speaking at a conservative women's event this summer. >> my name is lee warm sconce, and my pronouns are bible believer. jesus lever. gun carrier. and mama bear. >> now this political action committee, this path is less than a year old. in the past year it has been something of a test run. the path towards $600,000 into four traditionally nonpartisan school -- it hired heavy right-wing consulting firms, firms that worked on huge campaigns for candidates like ted cruz, glenn youngkin, and turned those local nonpartisan races incredibly partisan. the pact sent thousands of fliers like this one, falsely claiming that politics and critical race theory have led to a recent school shooting in texas. all in al

this is not the best of the conservative party.onservative party is a great party, has a huge history and will revert in time to what it has been. i think a lot to blame is borisjohnson. he promoted a lot of really inferior people to his cabinet, he chopped off a lot of the very best brains in the party. and you're quite right, it is no longer a party of the centre, it has moved to the far right. the danger for liz truss is that all her backers are on the far right or most of her backers are on the far right. she does have some centrist backers but most of them, are far right and i hope they're not reflected in the cabinet, because if they are, the party will move further and further away from the electorate as a whole. but they are not going to stay powerful long, i think. there's quite a comfortable margin. look, wait for the winter when a lot of people suffer from the cold, inflation. i don't disagree. i don't think brexit is going to undo them in the end, although brexit will also show its real face, even though they don't want

however, i think you can't kind of homogenize black conservatives because there are other black conservatives who have a much stronger individualistic streak and a much stronger streak of belief in color blindness, and i don't think you see those in in thomas so i think you know seoul definitely but i think some other black conservatives he's a little bit more intention with is today's strain of afro-pessimism analogous to that of the early 70s and does a point in similar political directions? oh god. you know, i i i'm gonna pass on that question to be honest with you. yeah. it's it's my thoughts are too unsettled on it. and i feel like i'd be thinking a lot which is always a very dangerous thing for me to do. so, yeah, i'll think a lot real quick. i think there's the potential for currents now for pessimism to move towards rid of an anti-politics, but i also think that's a potential sort of in the one of the afro pessimists claims that you have to understand anti-blackness is really like an organizing ideology in the modern world. i think there's a way in which that can. be the basis for a a

traditional conservative feud. the to -a traditional conservative feud.that fake national pride better than rishi sunak— national pride better than rishi sunak or— national pride better than rishi sunak or liz truss. this is quite interesting _ sunak or liz truss. this is quite interesting - _ sunak or liz truss. this is quite interesting — i can't take that point — interesting — i can't take that point seriously at all, i'm sorry. what _ point seriously at all, i'm sorry. what about _ point seriously at all, i'm sorry. what about the argument that there's something about this debate that become too narrow? it's notjust for the conservative party, but for the public as well, since after all, this is the debate that will help determine who is prime minister? indeed, prime minister of the whole united kingdom, i must point out. i've not read the article, but it seems to me since the one nation tories were expelled by boris johnson for not supporting brexit, what we have is instead of the conservative and unionist party, we have an english national party. th

other people have written their books about fox news or conservative media. i've written a book the other direction >> no question about that. what about the idea that you, ari fleischer are such an intriguing figure to write this book because you were the press secretary for george w. bush and of course even people on the right are critical of the walk up to that war especially the issue of weapons of mass distraction and whether they existed and didn't exist. ultimately they didn't exist and people will say well, is arifleischer really not the guy to be making this argument . >> i'm glad you asked me that . i defended the media on that because the media faithfully and accurately reported what we all believed and when i say we all i'm not only talking about the cia which concluded during the clinton years that saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction, they made the ansame conclusions in the bush years and everybody knew that was their conclusion including us in the bush administration including israeli intelligence, the world thought that long so when

ah, it's taking a lot of people by surprise, preliminary results from a referendum in the conservative view state of kansas indicate that people have voted to protect abortion rights. the proposed amendment to the states constitution would have allowed state legislatures to back or significantly restrict abortions. so where to campaigners on both sides go now, i'm fill galen berlin and this is the day. ah, i am all these movie that they are going to take care of me and my female friends. i mean, i just, i feel really proud to be handsome tonight. i think it's ridiculous that in 2022 i'm having to vote for my own personal, right. the people that are losing life have no boys to people like me. don't speak for them. i do. ready not want any more rights taken away from that. we will not tolerate extreme fans on abortion in our state. ah. with also coming up activists are calling for an independent investigation after dozens of africa migrants died. trying to enter the e. u through spanish enclave. a survivor told the dublin years how he had been treated. then he to even in the floor he is

do as| conservatives is help people have more _ conservatives is help people have more of _ conservativesople off— what i don't support is taking people off -- _ what i don't support is taking people off —— taking - what i don't support is taking people off —— taking money. what i don't support is taking i people off —— taking money off people — people off —— taking money off people intact— people off —— taking money off people intact and _ people off —— taking money off people intact and giving - people off —— taking money off people intact and giving it - people off —— taking money offj people intact and giving it back people off —— taking money off. people intact and giving it back to them _ people intact and giving it back to them and — people intact and giving it back to them and hand _ people intact and giving it back to them and hand outs. _ people intact and giving it back to them and hand outs. she - people intact and giving it back to them and hand outs.— people intact and giving it back to them and hand outs. she called that gordon brown _ them and hand outs. she called that go