communities i mean are they supposed to be united first or the constantinople petrarch it is going to issue this really just license and down do the church building later in order for a church to become autocephalous it should receive at promise a special document in which as this out of self really is proclaimed and is recognised now the canonical orthodox church in the ukraine did not ask for such a tours and even if it is given such a document it will not accept it. the promise of autocephaly can not be addressed to whom it may concern it is always addressed to a particular person who is in charge of a persecutor church so before granting of these terms of how to safely they need to find a person who will be considerate of the church there is no such person at the moment there are. groups each of which is headed by a prosecutor person they are not in good relations with one another so even to unite of these two groups into one is already a problem so essentially we are talking about the granting of these other subtly to an idea of a ukrainian united to ukrainian church rather than

we recognize the primacy of foreigner which means that the pitcher of constantinople. is first someone tea quolls in the family or source of the churches but he has no right to intrude into another church he has no right to intervene into the affairs of churches he may if we wish cords in the certain the see if it is of all the orthodox churches but it is we the churches who trust him with this rule and if he acts contrary to the opinion of the percy cuellar church we cannot accept that the russian orthodox church also accused the constantinople petrarch it of wanting to start a war against the unity of the orthodox christian church and it said that if the ukrainian autocephaly is granted you're going to stop communicating communication of with with constantin ople by doing that one won't hear factor of only. fuel doubt or even more because you would effectively have to tie your cut your ties with other churches some of the churches have to decide whether to side with you or with constant within that make things even worse first of all we do not need to cut ties with o

the constantinople patriarchate is determined to proceed it just dispatched you know it's an invoice to ukraine to prepare for the granting of autocephaly and i wonder if you could lead us through this process i wonder if there is any task that the church needs to pass in order to be recognized and in this particular case since we're dealing with different communities religious communities i mean are they supposed to be united first or the constantinople patriarchate is going to issue this really just license and do the church building later in order for the church to become autocephalous it should receive a special document in which is this out of self really is proclaimed and is recognized now the canonical orthodox church in the ukraine did not ask for such a tours and even if it is given such a document it will not accept it. the promise of how to safely can not be addressed to whom it may concern it is always addressed to a particular person who is in charge of a persecutor church so before granting of this thomas of. they need to find a person who will be considerate of the chu

it is this schismatic groups which are supposed to constitute the basis on which constantinople wants to be able to build this. church and it is a political project because it is a project instigated by as a current ukrainian political authorities they want to create a united church or for churches the canonical orthodox church the two schismatic groups and also as the greek catholic church which belongs to the pope of rome this moment for an independent ukrainian church started back in the ninety nine percent baghdad and its supporters are pretty open about wanting a schism a political schism a religious schism but i think president bush on cut deep change a tactic a little bit and he presents it as him striving towards the unity of the ukrainian faithful i'm sure you dislike it but don't you think that it's a clever tactic for him we certainly like the idea of the unity of the church and we certainly dislike schisms but the broken silly asian between schismatics and the canonical church. should go through. the process which we call repentance and that is not repentance in the sense.

carry bring you back to my initial question about constantinople granting this ride of autocephaly to ukraine not the ukrainian church but actually to ukraine as a state because this is what we actually discussing at this point of time ukraine does not have. a united religious organization that can claim that document for itself it's more a political necessity for the current elites what do you make of it and the reason i'm asking is because in most democratic liberal societies. the separation between church and state is unquestionable and yet it's not the case for ukraine. in the ukraine there is one canonical ukrainian church it is the ukrainian orthodox church . which is recognized by all orthodox churches as canonical it twelve thousand parishes more than two hundred monasteries and millions of. and there are also two non-canonical groups which were called schismatic groups which are not recognized by any of the orthodox churches. it is this schismatic groups which are supposed to constitute the basis on which constantine or paul wants to be able to build this out of surface churc

independent and which is not yes exactly as a pitcher of constantinople acts as if he were the pope for the orthodox church but it has not been the tradition of the horse of the exchange to have such pope and we do not.

history of the church is about dealing with emperors there was the german emperor the emperor in constantinople the emperor in spain so it has all been dealing with the emperors not paul in whatever whoever. sold the church has an experience as a tradition i would say all dealings with the emperors the difference here is that china didn't have this kind of spirit so. the church comes in with a history for the for the china is a totally new thing we have seen in recent months that to push ups who were excommunicated by the vatican two to one so-called underground bishops have now been reappointed how unprecedented is the actually this is not really very unprecedented excommunication in the catholic church is a measure used for teaching you know is a kind of warning i warning you that you are committing a serious mistake is a serious sin saw if you repent and regret you will be re-instated and you will be forgiven so again the church has a lot of experience in that. is this arrangement this deal as you suggested going to give the vatican more influence in china but also the communist party a grea