the andrew carnegie's, the cornelius vanderbilt's, who had a lot of political power and influence and in that sense, were the central planners of the economy. so he would have been with you on that. he just wanted there to be a more diverse group of people, working people, who had a role in the planning of the economy and how wealth was distributed. he was against the central planning that was being done by very wealthy americans and business owners. >> in the interest of time, we were talking about the draft, but i want to go on to his position on the draft and his famous speech in ohio. to share with our viewers, it was the speech that ended up having debs arrested. to get a flavor of it, here is one of two quotes. the working class who shed their blood have never had a voice in making more or declaring p eace. if war is right, let it be made by the people. did he know he was going to jail? >> he had to know that it was likely. he knew that there were federal agents, stenographers taking down what he had to say. i think he gave a number of speeches along the same lines up to that po