thank you very much, craig robinson. thank you very much john feinstein. >> my pleasure, al, thanks. >> the great writer that anial hawthorne once said easy readinging is damn hard writing, stanley fish and roger rosenblatt know this too well. they have written books on the craft of writing and the powerful urge that driveses so many of us to take on the task. joining me are stanley fish. his new book is called how to write a sentence and how to read one with. and roger rosenblatt author of unless it moves the human heart, the craft and art of writing. i'm pleased to have both of them here at this table. good to see you. what is it about good writing that makes it good? >> i like plain writing, restrained writing. and writing that defend it-- depends on the strength of the known. a lot of writers talk about the strength of the verb or adjective, et cetera. the reason i like the known is that emmerson called it the speaking lang gauge of things. and i try to teach my writing studentses that if you find the write known you