he came to my house to speak at -- when i was at stanford business school sat crosslegged , at the fireplaceand talked for, like, three hours. what i remember most vividly, when i was at next, he was obsessed with apple. next has nothing to do with apple, he does not own a share of apple, and he is just distraught. he felt this visceral pain when apple is getting beaten around in the public eye or the press. emily: what kinds of things would he say? steve: he would always come to the same inevitable conclusion that apple should buy next and bring him and the next technology and operating system back in to apple. i would look at him like he was nuts. what ceo of apple would ever bring you back and keep their job? who would do that and think they could survive? of course, that's exactly what happened. he came back, and boom. the ceo that brought him in was gone within months. he was possessed. i think always has been with the mass market appeal of the products that apple has. everyone knows he has this fascination with design, but what fascinates me is that at no point do i recall him stating