but, in contrast to what your guest, randy crossman said earlier this morning, in the minds of jail justowell and lael brainard, i am not so sure they see a tight labor market right now. as lael brainard looks at the economy, there is an employment gap or deficit of about 8 million jobs. in jay powell's mind, comparing it to the february, 2020 level, there are 5.57 workers that -- million workers that have not been replaced. some of those are retired, but the way they are thinking about the economy there is considerable slack in the labor market because those workers have not been reengaged to the economy. if we start proceeding with normalization before that substantial further progress has been achieved, then you really do risk economic scarring from the pandemic becoming a real issue, and jay powell from the very start has said it is his priority to ensure that does not occur. jonathan: let's have that conversation -- what separates the doves from the super doves. i am not sure there are that many hawks. is it the participation rate that separates the views? carl: participation is a c