send it back as a clean cr. that will force a ping-pong legislative activity between the chambers, and john boehner will have to come up with something before midnight. >> all right. robert costa will be back with us later in the show helping out. thanks to him right now. in the house it's the gop's plan "c." they clearly want to get senate democrats on the record. take a listen to house republican whip kevin mccarty. >> we'll pass a bill that funds government, so the question will rest with harry reid, just two questions. will we treat individual americans the same way he wants to treat big business, and secondly does he want special treatment? and we say no, you have to live within the law. >> all right. so will the senate blink first? joining us is senate republican conference chairman john thune of south dakota. as always, mr. thune, thank you, sir. can i get your reaction. president obama pretty rough at one of his news conferences. he said the republican party is being held up by extremists. extremists are

let a clean cr pass.ith bipartisan support or there's going to be a shutdown of the government caused by them, the republicans. really, without being too dramatic about this. the fate of the country depends on the house being able to vote, the house. all members of the house of representatives. i hope that john boehner makes a responsible decision. one that's good for the country. job protection time is over with. it's time to start protecting the american people, senator durbin. >> before the final role call was announced just moments ago, there was a memo circulating an e-mail circulating that the republicans in the house anticipated losing and wanted to tell us what the next stage of the drama would be. send it back to us with new versions of the amendment. some sort of delay or defundsing of obama care and something to do with members health care. you see where this is headed? >> and staff. you see where this is headed? they are going to keep playing this over and over again expecting a different resu

the cr it's for 2 1/2 months. i've been up here for three months. we have yet to have a full fiscal year of 12 months. this doesn't get to the entirety of obama care kicking in on january 1st. labor union, we saw a letter today they don't want obama care. there's plenty of reasons for obama. keep the sequester, give us a little bit back but let's push back obama for a couple of months. we have a debate over the debt ceiling. >> that's where i want go. that's key. brian kelly, the debt ceiling. you got different ramifications on the debt ceiling. it did affect the stock market in 2011. they have to get through this in the next two weeks. first two weeks the cr and treasury department now saying october. if the debt ceiling doesn't get raised what happens? >> i think if the debt ceiling doesn't get raised, or if we get some sort of grand bargain which it doesn't seem we're close to that but let's say we do, i think that's a negative for the stock market because if you don't have the debt ceiling raised or you get a

they want to maybe have a short-term cr to extend the debate. they just don't have the votes right now to get a clean cr through. >> when you say they don't have the votes, they don't have the votes in the republican caucus. if john boehner would go to the floor this minute and bring up a clean cr, it would pass because every democrat would vote for ut. but if he does that, he risks open full scale revolt, kregt correct? >> he does and he has broke b the hastert rule before. because as you mentioned the pressure is so strong from the right, senator cruz is actually huddling with house republicans trying to pressure them to have a standoff. if he breaks the rule with that cruz pressure at the same time, his power is very tenuous. >> you had an incredible piece of reporting today about a phone call. basically, john boehner's plan was get everybody to swallow hard and just pass a clean continuing resolution and double down and gear up for the fight on the debt ceiling, then a bunch of tea party members had a phone call with ted cruz. what happened

i suspect that group of house republicans would support a clean cr. as richard just mentioned, these guys aren't calling the shots. ted cruz, heritage action, senate conservative fund is calling the shots, club for growth is calling the shots. 94 members that come from romney's 60% plus distribution they don't want to be -- they are willing to go along with this idea that has been born out of this 30 or so guys in the house republican caucus that even a few years ago were laughed out of the room by establishment votes. you're seeing the fight for the house gop. they are now taking the country into this fight. all the folks in the dmv area, largest concentration of federal workers, a lot of folks hurt by a possible shutdown. but you kind of sit here dumbfounded and say why doesn't someone rise up, go with a clean cr? they are fearful of all the energy in their party, going against them come 2014, come 2016. it's not something they want to engage in right now. it's absolutely fascinating. >> richard, isn't that the point? the real thing is not so much t

we will send back to them a clean cr. they will have to decide tonight whether or not the blackmail that they have been threatening for so long they're going to take action on and they'll be held accountable by the american people. let me be clear, this process of creating these manufactured crises of lurching from crisis to crisis, this is doing deep damage to our nation. and it has to end. and yet the republicans just as the congresswoman you just interviewed, she says, oh, we're ready to create another crisis over the debt ceiling and december 15th, another crisis over continuing resolution. these are manufactured by our speaker boehner and his right-wing folks. they're doing deep damage. it has to ends. >> jeff merkley, thank you for joining us. >>> i'm joined by nbc chief white house correspondent chuck todd from washington. chuck, thanks for being here. >> how are you doing, mara. >> the senate is expected to send back a clean cr to the house. what do you think speaker boehner is most likely to do if that happens? >

if they reject that house passed continuing resolution they're likely to send what's called a clean cr or continuing resolution back over here to the house of representatives and force them to decide whether they want to pass that clean continuing resolution or they want to send the government into shutdown later tonight. right now, as we speak, we've got two different things going on up here on capitol hill. as you said on the senate side they are getting ready to do exactly that, strip out the house obama care language and send a clean cr back over here to where i'm standing. this is the house of representatives where we are right now just a couple floors below us actually. the house republicans are gathering to try to figure out within their own caucus what they want to do with the rest of the day today. do they want to take up a number of alternatives including perhaps a one-week continuing resolution. do they want to send something back with obama care in it and ping-pong it back to the senate, maybe stripping out the individual mandate part of obama care. that's an option. or do

that they're going to send the cr back to the senate and insist that that go in. would you back that? >> i don't want any part of it, larry. i don't want obama care. please don't make me have obama care. but if i'm going to get it, just as roberts should get it too and so should president obama. so if they make me take it, i want justice robert there's with me. i want him to come over and sign up at the same exchange, and i want president obama to come on down from the white house, and he gives up any kind of employer subsidy he has, and he signs up for obama care too. if we do it for all federal employees, i'll vote for it. >> all right. you'll buy into that. the other thing that is being rumored, as you mentioned before, the individual mandate, there is talk that the house will send the cr back to the senate and include the individual mandate. so i assumed you would rally for that? >> well, here is my prediction, larry. something is going to happen in the next couple of hours that nobody has any idea was going to happen. i think there may be some other way that

this cr would do just that. it would give us time to finalize a broader budget deal, fund as through the fiscal year 14 appropriations bill, and get our fiscal house in order by getting the budget process back in regular order. our budget process matters. it matters for the oversight of the sprawling federal bureaucracy. it matters to control our government. thes a basic duty of congress that is explicitly spelled out in the united states has to duchenne. united states constitution. this is necessary. we must avoid the disastrous government shutdown that no one wants, especially our men and women in uniform. to pass thisnate as soon as possible to avoid a devastating and avoidable government shutdown. this response to the will of the american people by defunding obamacare. it must be repealed. mr. chairman, i thank you for your leadership on this bill, and i thank you for your commitment to regular audit -- regular order in ensuring over the next few weeks, we wrap up the fy 14 process the right way. crrge the h

even if we go with a very short term cr a week or go forward with a clean three-month cr, the real issuehe debt limit. that's the goal. >> he's got a variety of options in front of them. one of them would be effectively a short term cr that merges this battle over government shutdown with the debt ceiling which is frankly where i thought i was going to be

they passed a cr and the senate took it out, sent back the clean cr and the house said, okay, we'll putre provision in it, the one-year delay of it and added a repeal of the medical device tax. what happens if the senate does what harry reid says it's going to do. it'll take those two obama care provisions out and send a clean cr back to the house. so at that point the house could just pass the clean cr and all be over. is morning they havethy yet another obama care provision that they're going to attach and send it back yet again to the senate. most people think that's going to be some form of the vitter amendment which is an amendment named for david witt ir, the senator from louisiana that would ban members of congress and their staff from getting negligent sort of special subsidies when they buy insurance in the obama care exchanges. >> you know, byron, politics make this somewhat of a game and so i'm wondering who is scoring points now because you've soon house republicans do a couple of things in the last 24 hours or so. they mutt in a provision in place, a bill in place to pay th

the reason we are doing a short- term cr instead of a long-term cr is give the appropriations committees time to do their work and do our individual bills. that is what we are working on. we cannot fall into the abyss of a long-term cr. as many know, and i will give you an example -- as many of you know, the west has been on fire this summer. the chairman was reducing the number of fish in arizona. he saw the effects of the fires and flew out to the west. we were able to get 636 million allers -- $636 million to fund the for service and firefighting costs. we do the long-term cr, we lose that $636 million. we do short term, we will be able to keep them. we need to get to a long-term stay where we do individual appropriations will so we can have priorities met. some people think that doing a long-term cr reduces spending. i will tell you if you look at where we were last year with the bill we almost got done and then ended up with the long-term cr, the epa is spending about $75 million more this year than they would have with the bill we would have passed. if you think that is a way to sa

let's test bring a clean cr to the floor in a clean cr to the floor, past it with the few weeks that it gives us to come to the table to eliminate the sequester, which again hurts our at the destroys -- cost of the leased one million jobs, and again, something that is beneath the dignity of honoring our sponsor these to the american people to do what you did government should do, to grow the economy, to create jobs, and very importantly to reduce the deficit. with that i am pleased to yield to mr. hoyer. much, madam very leader. we are against shutting down the government. shutting down the government is bad policy. it undermines the confidence of our people, and national security, the economy, and creation of jobs. we are against shutting down government. errors are result they're prepared at this point in time to allow six weeks so that we can negotiate how we operate government effectively and efficiently. as result we are prepared to work as a leadership team to get the votes for a number which we think is not accurate, but which is the republican number. we are asking them to ta

they're going to send back a clean version of the cr.ation between harry reid and the house members to try to finally have a clean cr passed? >> for there to be a negotiation, somebody would have to pick up the phone. right now as far as we know, nobody is picking up the phone. let's not forget who picked up the phone last time. it was mitch mcconnell who called up joe biden. they're the ones who made the deal. this time i don't think mitch mcconnell is interested in making any deals. he's already come under a lot of fire from the conservatives in his home state and the national conservatives who are advertising in his re-election race trying to bump him off in his primary. so without him helping -- stepping in to make that deal, i don't think for a lot of the reasons that were cited in manu's story we really have people who have either the credibility or just the ability to make the kind of deal it would take. >> we will be watching. thank you manu raju and molly ball. >> thank you. >>> next, imagine a country where the health of 1 in 5

>> i do not know if it would be in the cr. it was certainly occur to me in the debt ceiling negotiations that it would be a place to talk about the balance to get that dollars back. the house has addressed this in the short term. the defense appropriations bill puts many of those dollars back in, much of them into readiness accounts. i would push to say the dollars have to go back to those accounts. that only addresses it one year. the sequester automatically occurs in each subsequent year. i think we have to say here is the solution to the sequester through the military budget. -- for the military budget. >> you are looking for a four- year solution. >> i am looking for that in the debt ceiling negotiations. i would like to see at least a situation to address the automatic sequester cuts through the life of the cr. it looks like that might be about three months. i have been unfortunately displeased with what i have been hearing coming out. what you will have with the sequester levels is, you will have those automatic cuts tha

i think a clean cr would have happened. a clean cr.rary move, i think it definitely would have happened. >> absolutely. i think there's too much on the line. >> especially because the senate democrats would have wanted that and that's what they're passing. >> and watching the republicans eat their own. you want to be part of a solution, you don't want to be part of the shutdown. >> let me ask you this, did cruz and lee make a mistake by holding it up. now it's not harry reid jamming john boehner. you have bob corker who went on the senate floor and said this is not the republicans, this is two republicans. so he has basically given cover to harry reid. >> well, senator cruz and lee obviously don't worry so much about this kind of division in the republican party. and they are perfectly -- look, it's not as though the people who have been with them all along are going to say, oh, now we're with very senator corker. they're going to say why is this guy, corker siding with the democrats and doing their dirty work for it. >> but is it sidi

i don't want to support a cr that only goes until november. that's absurd. the short-term funding is not a way to run anything. >> i agree. we'll leave it there. i just fret, all right, i look at this, to me this is a democratic victory and you're backing off and whether it's ted cruz's fault or whose fault it is. >> we're not backing off. i just want to make clear, larry, we're not backing off. >> there's not a single republican initiative in this cr, not a single republican initiative in this cr, that's the way i see it, and i think a lot of people will see it that way. >> that's why we need to have a winning strategy. no way am i backing off on my fight against obama care because i've already seen what's happened in new hampshire and people are being dropped from hospitals that they want to go to, physicians that they want to go to if they have to get on next change and premiums are going up, so this thing is going to fall on its own weight but we need to be smarter on what we're doing on the issues that you raised and you hit on the right issues. >> i'm

we have got the votes to pass a clean cr. >> oh, there has never been any doubt about that. never been any doubt. >> that's right. john boehner needs to decide, is it the middle class who comes first or his own speakership. >> but congressman, why do people like boehner and others like kevin mccarthy, they were all standing at the mic just now. why do they continue to act as if the american public is actually behind them when the polls generally show the exact opposite? >> well, yeah, they keep saying, listen to the american people. what they really mean is, listen to our echo chamber. listen to our tea party rally. listen to the press conference we have by ourselves on the steps of the capitol. every poll that i've seen is the chairman of the democrat and campaign committee is crystal-clear. the american people do not want to government to shut down over defunding the affordable care act. but if you listen to these republicans, they believe they have the absolute truth. they need to listen to the american people. in fact, republicans should listen to republicans and take th

they basically said we're going to put a clean cr and put it back to the house. they basically said we don't want any shutdown. they read the polls. i think that's bullish for stocks. >> totally bullish for stocks. definitely no shutdown, but right now there's uncertainty the there. >> i think they are all 3.5% in the downtown, why are banks and financials getting beaten down? >> look at goldman sachs around morgan stanley, off 3% 3.5%, morgan stanley up year to date 42% so this is the sector that's gained the most. therefore, people are checking profits and taking low off the table and going into this. >> what is it though? is it because long-term rates have come down and the so-called yield curve has flattened and that's bad for bank profits? something is going on inside there. take a guess for me. >> well, i think it's the uncertainty out of fed. i mean, big ben, he's waffled. saw him essentially move that unemployment goal post. 6.5%, 7% and now it's back 206.5%. banks don't like uncertainty out of our fed chairman. >> i agree with you on that. >> you know wh

this is the sixth week cr. somebody who has been involved in the effort around medical devices and we have cut in half the final bill the original tax for medical devices. other opportunities for us to move forward and be able to continue to conclude on health reform. that is not what this is about. this is about six weeks of supporting our troops, our veterans, our seniors, our children, the economy. six weeks. we need to come together and make that commitment to come together. people losing paychecks and being harmed. we will have a number of opportunities that we can talk about ways to work together. >>ou aress what this means for people in michigan? there are many ways in which this affects people in michigan, whether we are talking not someone who turned 65 and wants to sign up for medicare, where they will have the ability to go in and sign up. insee potential threats veterans payments and disability payments. we potentially in michigan -- a contractor for a lot of defense work. we do not know how it will

they're going to pass the cr at the level for defense. and they're going to pass a budget not -- >> that's all we've got time for. the impact of sequestration on the u.s. air force. we wwhen we realized we'd ome left gear behind. rain we were up the creek without a paddle. i mean, we literally needed paddles! campbell had left 'em in his garage. thankfully i had my navy federal credit union credit card on me, so we got new paddles and earned cash back. next time we'll remember the paddles. seriously? and forget campbell. 4 million members. 4 million stories. navy federal credit union. >>> the pacific air force is the largest command in the world. more than 450 fighter, bomber, tanker transsport other aircraft. headquartered in hawaii, it's the u.s. pacific command, spanning the globe from california to india and australia. or as the chief likes to say, from hollywood to bollywood and polar bears to penguins. washington is renewing its focus as north korea continues the threatening antics and china becomes aggressive in asserting its terri

you'll see them send over with the defund on the cr.ed cruz has to decide whether he's going to filibuster. harry reid's got to come back with the votes to ping it back to the house. then you'll have to reach an agreement on spending levels on the cr. you know, i worked in the house in the 1990s, republicans back then were not very excited about increasing the debt ceiling back then. this is always a difficult vote. they got to find a way to get the votes here. >> but what does boehner do, the speaker of the house, if he has to decide between rejecting the call to kill the affordable health care act or not funding the federal government. how does he deal with that one or the other situation? it isn't about cutting spending, it's about getting rid of one big milestone accomplishment of the president. >> you walk through the process. you give members of the house a vote which they're going to get tomorrow. they're going to vote to defund obama care. send it to the senate. they'll probably reject is that. then they send it back to the hous

use cr shutting the government or debt ceiling.of americans behind you on the debt ceiling where they want the president to engage in negotiations which would end up you with giving spending restraint to the gop or cr continuing resolution where americans are four to one opposed. why would you stake everything j something where americans are hugely against you rather than get something easy on the cr and do the hard stuff, spending cut, pipeline delaying obamacare a year on the debt ceiling where america is behind you? this is application of intelligence. it's not about a commitment to principle or a belief in conservative ideas. >> i questioned mccarthy on that. he didn't get to whether the battle is on cr or debt ceiling. there's a battle somewhere. >> i'm giving free advice. >> i want to play one more sound bite from the president and get your reaction. >> you don't have to take my word for it. if you talked to someone that said i was watching fox news and they said this is horrible. and you can say, you know what, don't take my

there might be a clean cr, maybe. there's not going to be a clean debt bill. jim, the reason i thought jared might like this is this is all republican fighting. >> i do like that part. >> i figured you would. jimmy, i think if the gop is not careful, they'll get themselves into a lot of hot water. >> listen, if some day they want to actually repeal and replace obama care, what they need to do is to win the senate and win the presidency. whatever they do now, that needs to be the long-term goal. how does this set up up for this. having some fiasco, a shutdown, even wers, debt ceiling, the markets are going crazy does not help them win the senate in 2014. perhaps the solution to this really is to combine the continuing resolution and the debt ceiling. you solve a debt ceiling and if obama care is part of it, then i think de facto you solve the continuing resolution and the government shutdown problem. even though in a way there's no way it should ever go for delaying the mandate or delaying the subsidies. republicans think they might go for that if it means dela

the cr will last through november 15. if it were extended through the whole year in that form, it would generate a sequestration in january around 4%. we could be facing it. said we're not going to sequester ourselves. we really thought this would be resolved. startime we will operating at a lower level than the president's request. the cr itself cuts the dod .udget the sequester would take out another 20 or so. we will start at a level below the president's budget to conserve sources till we get a better sense of where we are headed. quick question. october 1, all patients will go on october 1? >> correct. there's a payday for the civilians that is not affected, and one on october 1 for the military which is not affected. any lapse before would occur. the reserves are tricky because they are paid at various times. we are already struggling with some of that. i hope we can minimize or avoid any disruptions there too. >> one of the things listed as its activities necessary to continue recruiting. airshows andg things like

then you wanted to switch past a clean cr and have a fight over the debt limit. and again the so-called tea party faction of republicans, congressman refused. it raises the question who is running the house right now? >> never doubt. if you watched the vote last night unanimous republicans voting for it. inning side the -- inside the house and inside the senate. we have different strategies. this is a much bigger issue. this is the direction of america. we have a $17 trillion debt. it is larger than the entire economy. we have a part-time american job creation. 90% of all jobs created in the last year were part-time. this is a much bigger issue about what we are spending our money on and what is coming into this country. >> a couple of final questions. ted cruz and our next guest mike lee have been seen openly on the house floor lobbying republican conservatives to buck the plans of speaker boehner and yourself. do you have any problem with them meddling with the house republicans? >> i find individuals have the exact same goal. they have gone on where cruz has t

remember, boehner could pass a clean cr and debt ceiling increase if he wanted to.mmy. thank you for calling in as well. how politically risky, i guess, is it at this point to allow, for example, a repeal of the medical device tax? what are the possible ways in which some kind of negotiation, some give and take, some back and forth here could at least prevent a shutdown? >> the question becomes who takes on the most risk. i mean i think we saw when the republicans did this the last time, and most americans think most people think the republicans will bear the brunt of this politically. again, i tend to agree with that because i think -- nancy pelosi went to john boehner earlier and said i've got 200 democrats. i've got 200 votes to keep the government open. all you need -- by the way, she's going to lose two of her democrats. all she needs is john boehner to give her 19 republicans to vote to keep the government open and he said no. so the bottom line is the republicans have this in their hands to keep it open. the white house has said all you have to do is send me

i think he's doing a great thing by trying to tie the cr to defunding. but what you're seeing play out is a civil war. it's not behind the scenes. it's out in the open. speaker john boehner is putting pressure on senator cruz and other senate conservatives to fall through. to get the votes for defunding, but of course we know that's going to be very difficult. >> here's the thing. the reason that the drama seems so high and the reason that people are now going at each other in the public spotlight is everyone understands, they are now all collectively pursuing a doomed strategy. i mean, is that realization dawning on everyone? >> that's exactly right. there's really a strange thing happening within the republican party. we saw in the summer, senator ted cruz went on a nine-city tour with heritage foundation, with heritage action, stoking activists. telling activists that de-funding is a possibility. it got so big in the conservative movement, as an idea, as a cause, that they're now having to go through the motions, pass this vote in the house, but there

. >> not for the cr. >> the cr is -- >> how about for this -- not a budget, but -- >> the other issue is, not to get too technical, if we don't have conference committees over the cr -- >> the government is going to shut down. >> if the government shuts down it is wholly the republicans fault because we have voted three times now for the affordable care act which has been settled for three years now. they're willing to shut the government down and deny further health care research. they're willing to close national parks. they're willing to close some head start programs all over whether or not we are going to make sure that everyone in america has access to quality, affordable health care. their amendment last night to delay obama care by a year, what it does, it would prevent people like me, who have a pre-existing condition as a breast cancer survivor from knowing that we have the comfort of never being dropped or denied coverage for a pre-existing condition. that is what they're willing to shut the government down over. >> if you look at what they proposed, they came back and said

let's just have a bill on the cr go up and it would pass.>> kevin, senator john mccain raised this issue that neera just did. there was an election on this, mitt romney was against obama care, mitt romney did not win. former senator jim demint, now with the heritage foundation, was asked this and said that romney, that that wasn't really true, because romney was a flawed carrier of the anti-obama care mantle. >> i think he was a great carrier. >> because obviously, he passed romney care which was the model for obama care. i don't want to relitigate those, obviously there are differences, but do you buy that? were people not thinking this guy's going to repeal obama care when they voted for romney? >> i don't think one election is run on a single issue. they had their view they presented to the american public and we had ours. there was an election and it worked out obama was reelected but that doesn't change the fact that the house of representatives, that majority was also reeje-elere-elected. they were sent here because people had problems

. >> a group of senate democratic female members claimed that the house cr would deny women access to affordable contraception and annual screenings for breast and cervical cancer. >> i have that message to john boehner. act like a speaker of the house and not like a speaker of the republicans. >> it will probably be well into the late afternoon between 3 and 5:00 p.m. that the senate will send it back to the cr and that leaves the house with limited options and limited time. >> i think the house will get back together in enough time and send a provision to fund the government and few options for the senate to look at again. >> there is speculation that the house would fund the government for a short time 24 or 48 hours and told from our producer, that is a nonstarter on the september side. back to you. >> we'll be talking to many senators and congressman about what is happening. netanyahu is beginning the meeting with the president and it is played out in the white house now. let's listen. have you had conversations with speaker boehner. >> i am not at all resigned and i will have a

what's next is the cr which includes the defund language. we also heard from the congressmen, they're moving forward with this. whether or not there is a bad after-effect regardless of damage to the brand, will this damage be realized in 2016, especially when we're looking at a group, latino americans, who are watching obama care very, very closely. >> they are, richard. the reason is that latinos are the largest number of uninsured in the country so this is a group that is particularly supportive of this action. this is the thing, right now the best thing that democrats or president obama can do is exactly what her doing right now, which is just let the gop -- just let everything explode. let them fight it out to the finish. the problem of course is what happened afterwards, whether it's 2014 or 2016. does the party re-emerge with some kind of a more centrist platform that rein vig rates it and makes the party more agreeable to young voters and women. >> this is not good messaging for a group watching both of these issues very closely. >> i