then, the third phase of his career, rather than cuddily, i would say an iconic curmudgeon. cuddilyerly -- curmudgeon. >> he was an historically important figure, and the american people, over time, developed an affection for those iconic characters, those important historical figures, even if they were busy denouncing them at the time that actually had some degree of political importance. >> so they are remembering the .eriod -- the later period michael, you follow these closely. you agree with the? -- with that? >> i think he nailed it. there are several phases. if there is something i can pick saying,at david was with rand paul, barry goldwater could speak with incredible self-righteousness which was noted in "the making of the president" in 1964, where he sounded like an old testament-type of profit, and if anyone comes closest to that in a homing time -- call me and g kind ofay -- calmin way it would be rand paul. people thought barry goldwater was far right, and for this time that is probably where it was. mainstream, it is a very meandering stream. i think rand paul i