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cummings but how did other members of congress react to what they were

this is the latest in a bitter feud between i issa and cumming. remember lois lerner's last appearance on the hill? >> i'm a member of the united states of america house. we represent 700,000 people. you cannot have a one-sided investigation. that's absolutely something wrong with that and it's absolutely un-american. martha: remember that moment? that was a feisty exchange. we may see more of that today. allison barber joins me now. what do we know about cummings request for more information on true the vote? >> issa is saying in january 2013 some of cummings staff member reached out to the irs saying we are looking to do an investigation and look into the tax records and fax exempt status of this one group true the vote. previously you had the founder and president of true the vote testifying before a subcommittee. she brought up the fact that cummings office and the irs contacted her and made requests for information. her attorney suggested perhaps cummings' office played a role in putting true the vote on the irs radar. cummings said that wasn

what is involved with huntsman cummings are two things. -- with congressman cummings are two things. in 2012, ms. engelbrecht received a series of letters from the irs asking for increasingly more and more and more information. and fairly closely on the heels which asked for the on information on the software they use, the training that they get to people, the vendors that they use, ms. engelbrecht also received three letters on different occasions askingngressman cummings for very, very similar, if not identical information. cueto mitchell, an attorney that represents true the vote had a hearing this past february who said that it seems more than coincidence up to her and she would get to the bottom of this. and ms. engelbrecht has filed ethics charges against congressman cummings. the similarity between the request being made by the irs and being made by congressman cummings-- congressman and said, gee, maybe there is some improper coordination going on between the irs and congressman cummings staff. in january 2013, congressman cummings did contact the irs and it request publicly

alan cumming! the cast of "cabaret."d applause ] >> jimmy: my thanks to kevin costner, danica mckellar, alan cumming and the broadway cast of "cabaret." phlip bailey and the roots right there! [ cheers and applause ] stay tuned for "late night with seth meyers." thank you for watching. have a great night. hope to see you tomorrow. [ cheers and applause ] ♪ [ cheers and applause ] ♪ >> announcer: from 30 rockefeller plaza in new york it's "late night with seth meyers." tonight -- edie falco. marlon wayans.

and congressman elijah cummings had enough of the irs hearings. >> i am a member of the united states of america. i'm tired of this. >> and now we may know why. a shocking report, it all starts on the "kelly file" right now. >>> breaking tonight, exclusive new video from inside the western ranch showdown as violence nearly i results in a showdown with the government and tonight, we're learning that this fight may be far from over. welcome to the "kelly file" everyone. i'm megyn kelly. the war between a rancher, supporters and the feds on the other side first gaining attention last wednesday with this tasering video. by saturday, it had come to a heads. cowboys and average americans and militia members on one side coming face-to-face with heavily-armed agents, federal and local. the rarcnchers determined to ta back mr. bundy's cattle seized by the government which had two court orders on its side. one way or another the ranchers were determined to get the cattle back however, and take a look at our exclusive video. >> let's talk. if they do this, not going to hold them back. >> hey, li

lou: i wantto try its the to elijah cummings, their ranking member today. mccarthyism even as the committee has evidence that his office had gone directly to ms. lerner for briefings on issues relevant to the committee. your thoughts? >> you know, he is squealing like a little critter that has been stock. it sounds like elis a cummings' knew that sooner or later it was going to come out that he was trying his back and moved and that he lied about it when asked about it and has been trying to cast blame and trying to shift the blame. you know, so it comes out. oops. eliza, little embarrassed at the moment. probably not. once again, it is par for the course. lou: par for the course, it turns out texas getting a lot of air time tonight. dallas, irs office apparently looking like a campaign office, not the address is as the office of because of all of the obama screen savers, the bumper stickers, whatever it may be. this and t-shirts. how can this be happening in the federal government? >> well we will be seeing with the irs, that's all it's of the iceberg. sud

what is involved with huntsman cummings are two things. -- with congressman cummings are two things.n 2012, ms. engelbrecht received a series of letters from the irs asking for increasingly more and more and more information. and fairly closely on the heels of those letters which asked for the on information on the software they use, the training that they get to people the vendors that they use, ms. engelbrecht also received three letters on different occasions from congressman cummings asking for very, very similar, if not identical information. cueto mitchell, an attorney that represents true the vote had a hearing this past february who said that it seems more than coincidence up to her and she would get to the bottom of this. and ms. engelbrecht has filed ethics charges against congressman cummings. the similarity between the request being made by the irs and being made by congressman connie's -- congressman cummings and said, gee, maybe there is some improper coordination going on between the irs and congressman cummings staff. in january 2013, congressman cummings did contact

i want to get your thoughts on one thing in particular, congressman cummings, the notion of race, so for a number of reasons the last few weeks. paul ryan was asked about racial dog whistles that maybe embedded in things he said about the inner cities and he begged ignorance. he said, oh, i don't even -- dog whistle, i don't even know what that is. do you think that is genuine? i mean, do you think that republicans, in slashing these programs, speaking wait they do about communities of color, low-income americans, are completely ignorant to the fact there are racial elements and there's racial targeting that happens in all of these proposals? >> it's hard to same i hate to go to anybody's intentions, but let me say this, that report just came out, put out by global policy solutions and congressional black caulk kaunsd the duke research work that talks about how african-americans and hispanics are falling further and further behind and when it comes to economic inequality. so i would hope woe look at that report. he was, by the way, invited to their conference to discuss his issues, w

is ngressman cummings correct. we do have constitutional rights.owever that as with all of our constitutional rights one can waive them and so the question becomes whether mr. lerner either by protesting her innocence through the house committee or the statement she gave to the department of justice, whether she has waived them or not that's a legal question. it seems assuming the parts an politics is out of this equation and we'll see what a court of law has to say about it. i don't think that his argument is frivolous. however by no means is it clear that mrs. learner through her contact has not waived the privilege. caller: yes, good morning and thank you for taking my call. i have couple of quick questions and a comment. the a democrat back in 1980's. i became a republican. what really concerns me is on the moderate side of the republican party. you know, i'm kind of horrified what the republican party is doing. and it's absolutely making me rethink what, you know, where i stand. i think of becoming i. the actual polarization in this action is

they released what they call evidence of collusion between learner and elijah cummings. they claim the irs have released internal e-mails showing them contacting ms. learner directly inquiring about specific conservative nonprofit advocates as far back as august of 2012, a claim that has cummings repeatedly and vee mentally denying. he most recently denied those charges in february of this year. >> we want to get to the bottom of how these coincidences happened. and we're going to try to figure out if there was any staff of this committee that might have been involved and putting through the vote on the radar screen. we don't know that. but we're going to do everything we can do to try to get to the bottom of how did this all happen. >> want to thank the gentleman for his courtesy. what she just said is absolutely incorrect and not true. >> this is the same congressman who compared chairman issa to joe mccarthy in a press release. our first guest tonight will vote on contempt charges against learner tomorrow. he says it's simple when you have a duly issued subpoena, you

cummings talks about rights, i listen. good attorney. i will listen because i familiar with his personal narrative. while he was talking, i scribbled down court rights. you have a right to confront your witness. that is the same document. you have a right to cross-examine witnesses. i think it is important for us to spend a minute on why our framers thought it was so important you be able to confront and cross-examine witnesses. it is the single best way to elicit the truth. you have a right to remain silent. you have a right to a jury trial. it is waived every day across this country. isn you plead guilty, that your waiver of your right to a jury trial. people make the mistake of representing themselves. when we talk about rights, let's talk about all the rights, including the right to confront witnesses and cross-examine witnesses. it is important industry and why we were given those rights. ms. lerner is an attorney. like the folks mr. cummings represented, or the folks i have prosecuted. she is an attorney. she had attorney city behi

. >>> but first, congressman eliza cummings joins me. stick around. we're back on "the ed show." to the next level. so we talked about her options. her valuable assets were staying. and selling her car wouldn't fly. we helped sydney manage her debt and prioritize her goals, so she could really turn up the volume on her dreams today...and tomorrow. so let's see what we can do about that... remodel. motorcycle. [ female announcer ] some questions take more than a bank. they take a banker. make a my financial priorities appointment today. because when people talk, great things happen. [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ she can print amazing things, right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ carsthey're why we innovate. my mom works at ge. they're who we protect. they're why we make life less complicated. it's about people. we are volvo of sweden. because you can't beat zero heartburn. woo hoo! [ male announcer ] prilosec otc is the number one doctor recomm

engelbrecht has filed ethics charges against congressman cummings.he similarity between the request being made by the irs and being made by congressman cummings and said, gee, maybe there is some improper coordination going on between the irs and congressman cummings staff. there is no question in january of 2003rd scene he did contact the irs. did requested. is provided by a deputy of lois lerner.

cummings seeking publicly available information? >> i don't think so.e was asking all the documents and e-mails show he asked repeatedly or a few times for publicly available information and only publicly available information, and the other thing that's interesting about this is that the irs was investigating true the vote way before comings ever asked for public information and only the public. he doesn't ask them where their investigation was or to investigate the group. he just said can you -- he asked, i think, if the tax returns were public information, could he get a copy or something -- >> now that important because he was accused by the lawyer for true the vote, by putting true the vote on the irs' radar screen and denied that and they said his denial spoke to more. in any event, it's important he put them on the i rrrs' radar screen. with the information, joe, what the try the vote says typically when that is done, when the house minority would seek documents like that from the irs, they would let the majority know about it and claim this was

then we will ask tennessee republican marsha blackburn and maryland democratic elijah cummings about hhs secretary sebelius's resignation and the controversy over equal pay for women. 50 years after the passage of the civil rights act where are we on civil rights today? we will have highlights from the civil rights summit at the lbj library in austin and our own summit with tavis smiley from cbs, nicole hanna jones of republican a and eric dyson of georgetown university and evan wolf son and look back at the boston marathon attack one year later. plus an all-star panel of analysts. 60 years of news, because this is face the nation. captioning sponsored by cbs >> schieffer: good morning again, pro russian militants seized police stations in eastern ukraine, there is chaos and confusion today, ukrainian officials say gunfire was exchanged. pistol lard of sky news is there and filed this report for sky news by phone. >> the we are at the police headquarters, which remain firmly in the hands of those armed protesters and carrying ak-47s, pistols and holsters on their hips and remain firm

a performance from alan cumming and the cast of "cabaret." on back. >>> changing the way you chat on social media. a new push by facebook will force users to download its messenger ap. facebook is getting rid of the chat service on the mobile ap. the messenger ap looks like android phones. experts say it may be in response from growing competition from other aps like snapchat. menlo park facebook bought what's ap for $19 billion. >> you may have seen somebody who is wearing them. now you soon could own them. google glass will go on sale to the public tuesday. a computer will be available online. here's the catch. one day only. they cost $1500 plus tax. limited number available. and only forr( adults in the u.. a select number of people have been allowed to wear them but now they're for sale. they've given google input how to improve the original glass and now it could be yours, too. >> up next, national tv for the warriors with a chance to get into the playoffs. it came down to the final shot. stay with us. >>> so this is how it's supposed to

cummings talks about rights mr. chairman i will listen. i will listen because he was a very good attorney and i will listen because i'm familiar with his personal narrative and while he was talking i scribbled down down -- you have a right to remain silent and you also have a right in the document that the right to remain silent at this in. you have a right to cross-examine witnesses mr. chairman and it's important for us to spend just a minute on why our framers thought it was so important that we be able to confront and cross-examine witnesses because it is the single best way to elicit the truth. yes you have a right to remain silent. you also have a right to a jury trial but it's waived every day across this country. when you plead guilty that is a waiver of your right to attorney trial. you have a right to counsel in felony cases. people wave at all the time and make the mistake of representing themselves. so we are not talking about rights, let's talk about all the rights including the right to confront witnesses and crossing salmon

engelbrecht has filed ethics charges against congressman cummings. the similarity between the request being made by the irs and being made by congressman cummings and said, gee, maybe there is some improper coordination going on between the irs and congressman cummings staff. there is no question in january of 2003rd scene he did contact the irs. did requested. is provided by a deputy of lois lerner. >> let me get a quick. be compelled to resign and should he now be included? bloodthere is some bad between congressman issa of california and congressman cummings. that is unfortunate. i view it as an unfortunate sideshow. i don't want to get into whether congressman cummings committed ethical issues. if facts come out that warned that he is somehow engaged in improper conduct, i will change my mind at that point. but for now, the committee continue its investigations, try to get the truth, and the issue whether or not ms. lerner should be prosecutors and should be settled in a court of law. caller: three trick things -- three quick things. i was under

cummings was targeted and irs was targeting. how much interaction went on. that's an interesting and important question. members of congress calling on regulators to do things, hauling in front of committees, having communication about ongoing action is potentially a big no no. >> dan, do you think this story, the irs scandal, does it still have traction with voters and will it have traction in november? >> i think it does. what's going on here, the government was using internal revenue service, an agency most people are a little bit afraid of. clearly they were sent after these tea party groups. many citizens organizing out in the country and towns and names no one has heard of to do some politics. those groups quit under this intimidation. many disbanded. i think that sort of thing does have resonance with voters. it's going too far. >> last word. >> ought to resonate with democrats, too. we don't want to go down a path where the party in power attacks it to the opponent. obama is not going to be president forever. >> wen we come back, the face of obamacar

cummings was targeting and the irs was targeting. how much more interaction went on? that's an interesting and important question. because members of congress, they're allowed to put out letters calling on regulators to do things, hauling them in front of committees or having ongoing communication with them about ongoing actions is potentially a big no-no. >> dan, do you think this story, the irs scandal, does it still have traction with voters, and will it have traction in november? >> you know, i think it does, stuart. because what was going on here was that the government was using the internal revenue service, an agency most people basically are a little bit afraid. and clearly, they were sent after these tea party groups, many of them just citizens organizing out in the country and towns with names no one has ever heard of to do some politics. those groups quit under the intimidation. many of them disbanded. and i think that sort of thing does have resonance with voters. it's going too far using the weapon of government. >> last word. >> really resonance with dem

it's from the house oversight committee person under elijah cummings.ubject is house oversight committee minority staff and what they say is the house oversight committee requested any publicly available information on you, on true the vote and the house oversight come hmittee believes they havey other information publicly available and so on. it's clear that elijah cummings, democrats, wanted information on you and asked the irs for it and yet, he appears to be denying that in that subcommittee hearing. is that correct? >> absolutely. i think i would go beyond he appears to be. he lied. he inpuned me and the work of my organization and he did so with such brazenness that i think we need to call it what it is. he's lying. >> so now you've got the house oversight committee democrats coordinating with the irs. this isn't in the context of investigating what went wrong with the irs. this isn't elijah cummings' group saying let's figure it out. >> that's right. >> this is -- >> go ahead. >> this is the worst, this is the worst, you know t of your fears conf

cummings but how did other members of congress react to what they were told today. >> democrats tried as essentially this was republicans trying to make the health care law look bad once again. but a top republican said it isn't just the gop that is upset. >> with all the headlines, all the problems associated with the federal exchange you've got a democrat congressman from the state of maryland saying you guys are such a mess, we should bag this and go to the federal exchange. >> i testified i.t. didn't work. i don't disagree we had a major i.t. problem. it was overcoming that problem that allowed us to hit our enrollment quote. >> he emphasized the positive they reach enrollment goal. two years and $200 million later maryland is scrapping its exchange and buying the technology connecticut used. gretchen. >> that's whey heard. mike emanuel, thanks so much. >>> major developments in the irs targeting scandal now. house oversight committee announcing honest website moments ago it's going to consider a contempt of congress illusion sometime today against former agency director lois lern

congressman elijah cummings fighting the good fight.hank you, sir. >>> yesterday during a house judiciary committee, a birther republican from texas basically threatened attorney general eric holder with another contempt vote, something that holder didn't take lightly, as you'll see here. take a look. >> now realize that contempt is not a big deal to our attorney general, but it is important that we have proper overnight. >> you don't want to go there, okay? >> i don't want to go there? >> no. >> about the contempt? >> you should not assume that that is not a big deal to me. i think it was inappropriate, i think it was unjust, but never think that was not a big deal to me. don't ever think that. >> so we've been trying to get to the bottom of fast and furious where people died, where at least a couple hundred mexicans died, and we can't get the information to get to the bottom of that, so i don't need lectures from you about contempt. >> and i don't need lectures from you either. >> the time of the gentleman has expired. >> unfortunatel

stuart: we are learning about that exchange was elijah cummings and darrell issa.arrell issa is accusing cummings of colluding with the irs to target the conservative group true the vote. darrell issa says a member of cummings's staff repeatedly contacted the irs asking for derek. lerner, the woman at the heart of the scandal was involved in responding to those requests. monica crowley is here. that is not all. dave camp, his committee has released information that shows that lois lerner went around people, over their heads and quite deliberately targeted karl rove's crossroads group and said why aren't you auditing crossroads? goes on. >> this is the tip of the iceberg. those two groups, karl rove's crossroads, high-profile groups, people generally know what they are and who they are, who represents the mend what they do but think about the countless small local tea party groups, pro-life groups, religious groups that were targeted in the same way by the irs and don't get this notoriety. that is what the team is looking into. interesting that it was dave camp and

>> you say what elijah cummings and others have said, that this is a political mugging. frankly, i have had my own experience with darryl issa, the committee chairman. he put out a report about housing a few years ago, with a very blatant error. and i saw him in the hall and said, let me prove to you how wrong this is. and he shrugged his shoulders and he said, well, that happens. no regard for the truth. you talked about a double standard. how we treated them. take benghazi and take libya. when many more americans were killed, it was early on -- i mean, lebanon. early on in my congressional service. under the presidency ronald reagan, there were a couple of hundred marines in a barracks in lebanon, that had been sent in there to try to stabilize the situation. and the place was unprotected. and a truck full of explosives drove in, and i don't know -- i think it was 280 marines, a terrible tragedy were killed. we democrats were in control of the congress. ronald reagan said, well, you know, it wasn't ready, but sometimes, when you're building a house, it takes longer to

cummings votes no. mr. cummings votes no. mrs. maloney votes no. ms. norton. mr. tierney. mr. clay votes no. mr. lynch votes no. mr. cooper votes no. mr. connolly votes no. mr. cartwright votes no. ms. duckworth votes no. ms. kelly? mr. davis? mr. welch votes no. s. grisham votes no. ou are not recorded. >> does anyone else seek to be reported? the clerk will report. >> on that vote, 21 yeas, 12 nays. >> the ayes have it. the report is ordered to the house. the staff shall be authorized to make necessary technical conforming changes to the report. >> mr. chairman, i asked a number of days. >> so ordered. without objection. we stand adjourned. >> today on c-span, the freedom summit from manchester, new hampshire. including appearances by senators rand paul and ted cruz, mike huckabee and donald trump. we'll have live conversation all day so you can join in the conversation on facebook and twitter. it begins at 10:00 a.m. eastern here on c-span. >> i think what we need is something akin to the grace commission during the reagan administration or the brack commission, the base re

not to mention, let's not forget it wasn't just elijah cummings and senator white house.e had chuck schumer saying to the irs after the scandal broke keep going after these groups, and so democrats were definitely colluding what the extent of that but it's starting to show. >> we'll learn more. good to see you. >> good to see you, too, thanks, megyn. >>> a story we first broke on the kelly file. a judge opened the door for a u.s. company to prove it was targeted for retaliation by the obama administration, we'll update you. >>> double trouble, a powerful group of liberal doctors and a guy with a billion-dollar bank account pledge to change and tighten our gun laws. up. a short word that's a tall order. up your game. up the ante. and if you stumble, you get back up. up isn't easy, and we ought to know. we're in the business of up. everyday delta flies a quarter of million people while investing billions improving everything from booking to baggage claim. we're raising the bar on flying and tomorrow we will up it yet again. salesgets up to 795 highwayal is the passamiles pe

you chairman issa, jordan and lankford and ranking cartwright and cummings. i appreciate also the other distinguished members the having us here. i'm peter lee from covered california and i'm glad to share our early implementation lessons in california in launching the affordable care act. i think it is important that we california to across a whole range of bestituents, whether they insurance agents, county workers, health care providers, positions political who have come together in california to expand coming. of thateing the fruits effort today. california is one of 15 state weed exchanges and when started we looked at the data and said that somewhere around 4 million californians could benefit from federal support, expanded medi-cal -- in a very few years we've gone a 10-person organization to an organization of over 1,000 people. startup that fast is working to change history. so how is it going so far? of theheard some numbers. 1.2 million californians now have coverage directly through covered california. an additional 1.9 have coverage medi-cal and e

you have this partisan sniping pointing the finger at elijah cummings and the regular american strugglesbrate the weak from that but it matters in assessing their denials here. >> well, credibility does matter, and it is sad, i think, that if you look at the ratings of congress, they are, you know, in the pits. i served in the congress 12 years. i thought it was bad quite frankly when newt gingrich was the speaker of the house and i was a democrat. i thought that was a difficult time, but today the polarization is really, i think, quite harmful. i don't know how we're going to get beyond it. i hope we can. and come to the point where, you know, megyn, my first year in congress, my best friend was a republican member of congress, and i'm not sure those kinds of relationships occur or are even possible today. i think that's not good for the country. >> they could take a lesson from the supreme court where they have folks on the right side and the left side and they are close. the people in congress need to take a lesson and have a life-time relationship. governor, i got to run, great to se

. >> congressman cummings, i respect him, and he is a committee member.ave to have transparency on both sides. i don't know what happened with the hearing involving congressman cummings and that he's a ranking member of a committee and has every right to ask questions of the irs. >> i would advise darrell issa that he might invite the ranking member krurcummings to those meetings. >> we're talking about this administration. so we'll try to stay focused there. da david a >>> some 150,000 attended st. francis who some call the people's pope. easter sunday here at america's news headquarters would not be complete without a message from our own father jonathan morris. he will join us live after the break. >>> and we want to see how you and your family have celebrating both the easter and passover holidays. we'll show some a little later in the show. and we're already getting some. brady celebrating in virginia. adorable. and across the country, hanna is decorating eggs in california. nice job. and these cutis out on their egg hunts. we love to see your pictur

i'm joined here in new york in the studio by kathleen sproes cummings from the study of the american catholicism at notre dame and a former biographer of john paul ii. with him, father robert barron, also an nbc papal contributor. father barron, if i can start with you, it looks like things have gotten underway on time. can you tell us what's happening right now? >> well, right now the cardinals are processing into st. peters square and while the litany of the saints is being sung. a very beautiful moment. the two new saints are being joined to the role of saints. as the liturgy commences we invoke the great communion of saints. it's a very beautiful and mystical beginning to the liturgy. >> as i went through the rundown, it appears the canonization portion of the ceremony itself is rather short and simple followed by the mass. is that a fair reading of how this will go? >> that's right. it takes place at the very beginning. it will then be followed by the regular, you know, roman rite of the mass. but the canonization takes place at the beginning. >> kathleen, let me bring you in ri

when it comes to the consequences for elijah cummings, i'm not sure what's going to happen there yet.hairman of the oversight committee darrell issa along with five subcommittee chairman have sent elijah cummings a letter demanding that he explain not only why he denied any communication but why he was in communication with the irs and how he was planning to use that information. >> katie pavlich from washington. thanks. >> thanks, guys. >> have you ever wondered about where your family came from? it's easy to figure it out. very next guest is about to show you how to climb your family tree. >> and there is video proof which you probably already knew you can't reason with a 1-year-old. this father plans to try. >> jump and fly off. you can't do that now, can we? >> that. >> okay. so she could take her dream to the next level. so we talked about her options. her valuable assets were staying. and selling her car wouldn't fly. we helped sydney manage her debt and prioritize her goals, so she could really turn up the volume on her dreams today...and tomorrow. so let's see what we can do a

is this congressman elijah cummings. >> glums nothing to prevent him from putting it on the table to look at. >> issa technically has control of a lot of the messaging out of this committee and a lot of what becomes public. >> you mean elijah cummings? nothing has stopped him from talking. if he has the documents i'm sure he would put them out. >> there that's what democrats are, chicago. they are charging it's election year stunt. this san issue that really charges us republicans. >> if the republicans are wrong on, this i think that the democrats ought to come charging throughout with the right documents and not just that, you know, let's have it, right? >> yeah. and as alex said, this is something that's not going away any time soon. this is understood by both parties to be radioactive issue that, you know, anything that keeps us in the news is obviously god for republicans, but, it's also somewhat difficult for democrats to totally paint this as a sort of needless exercise. what they have done is focused on the investigator. darryl issa, and not as much on the problems at the age

you mesh the battle with cummings, issa is the chairman. elijah cummings interacted with lois learner that's got everyone else jealous. she takes the fifth in front of the committee, but not with him. he talked about with her the targeting the irs groups, of texas non-profits called true the vote and put them on the radar for the irs. cummings has denied that in the past. but now you have an e-mail chain confirming that. he has a lot of explaining to do. >> he does. the irs -- there's e-mail that shows that his staff was communicating with the irs. why haven't you cracked down on that? you said the texas group called true the vote. and congress has written letters to cummings saying why did you hide that? he doesn't look so good. and remember, keep in mind, bill o'reilly pried this from the president of the united states. there was no trouble at the irs. >> you're saying no corruption, none? >> there was some bone-headed decisions. >> not mass corruption? >> not mass corruption. not even a smidgen. >> what about a smidgen of stone walling?

there's the infamous cut the mike gesture issa made to elijah cummings. there seems to be hostility and intolerance palpable in the room here. es this new, is this emotional weight, carried by the republicans investigating this so-called controversy, is this the new development? >> they're determined to keep an issue, a political issue, regardless, regardless. and so i think that's why they're taught, they somehow feel they have a path set out, those want this as a political issue and nothing's going to get in the way of it. yesterday when i said to the charm, look, i want to raise a point of order here, he essentially decided, even that was out of order. i said, let's do this publicly, because what you're doing, here's what happened, these were private documents, and he was trying to find a way to make them public. very much contrary to the rights of all of us taxpayers. he was infringing on the confidentiality, when we file a return, when we file a return, when we give other documents to the irs, they need to be confidential under a statute. and essenti

. >> well, the same thing that they used with the president, elijah cummings. america, we're culturally conditioned to believe that you can undervalue, underestimate and marginalize someone like eric holder. the reality is that you can't. and what you saw in eric holder is the same thing that you saw with congressman elijah cummings. people aren't going to take it anymore. they're not going to be told what they think, and it's, you know, in some private, polite company, we refer to it as righteous indignation. bottom line is, i'm so proud of eric holder in the way that he responded, and i think he put the congressman in his place. >> now, you know, susan, you've been around and have watched the congress and reported on the congress for a while. have you ever seen the tone and language like you've seen under attorney general holder? >> i actually think there's an animous that exists between the attorney general and some of the republicans in congress. it's much deeper than between the president and the republican congress. and i'm not entirely sure where it come