-- curuz? .> thank you, mr. chairman for counterterrorism purposes, what is the relative value of killing versus capturing a senior operational leader of al qaeda, and how is that assessed? >> i have to sit in the hypothetical here, but there is a progression of a terrorist organization generally look that in three stages. one is recruiting, and you have an iconic figure. in a particular phase, a limiting that figure 11 is the movement. when you move into the second stage, that is where you start to build a bench, so just the. if you build one, another one will come. the third stage is franchising. they start to proliferate out and have their own ability to generate. after you leave the first stage , separate political considerations, killing the leader has little value because he will be or she will be replaced. particularly capable one and it takes them a while to recover, but generally it is considered in the second and third stages -- killing the leaders is not really a laminate the movement. >> colonel? >>