you could have cybercriminals, you could have cybercriminals hired by the government so when we look at places you can find them in europe, you can find a couple of them, a lot in asia and even the u.s.. had in the u.s. it is a little more difficult because we have strong law enforcement so if you commit this kind of crime you will eventually be caught but in russia or china your chances of being caught, as long as you attack places outside, are pretty small. >> guest: how strong is the international effort these days of the law enforcement front to crackdown on these kinds of things? recently there was this case where a bunch of these pbx systems have been broken into and there were links broken up in italy, and it seemed like that was actually quite an interesting law-enforcement effort between the italians, the u.s. and the philippines so i was just wondering if that is uncommon or increasingly common, how good is that cooperation? .. >> i thank my two colleagues from new york for the introduction, and i appreciate it, and i know both -- i have known you for sometime judge, you ha