one of the blushes for guy's new book calls it the best since dale carnegie wrote "how to win friends and influence people." guy kawasaki joins me with kim worley of yahoo! kim mcnicholas of forbes. you laughed when i called you a shameless self-promoter, so we're off to a good start. let me start with just the current news, pandora. you were very, very, very early to pandora. >> yes. or very fortunate. >> yes, you were. why? why were you so early to pandora? what did you recognize? >> somebody working for the technology ventures at the time, we're an early-stage venture firm and bank at the time, recognized this concept that, you know, people wanted to find music. and when they pitched us, they used this really great term. it's a lesson for many entrepreneurs. they said we're going to find the music genome. and you just hear music and genome, and you think, wow, man, this has got to be a cool company, so i was there. >> but it's not making any money. i mean, we have -- >> details, details! >> compared to what? >> it made money for guy kawasa kawasaki. >> compared to what? >> yes, at