damon dumas knows all about defying court orders. he went into hiding when he was using a loosely organized group of safe houses to escape life with a father, he says, was abusive. >> my mom actually made sure that she wouldn't know where i was going. she handed me off so someone she trusted, who handed me off to someone else that she trusted. >> reporter: who was taking care of you? >> whoever i was with was taking care of me. >> reporter: were they strangers? >> they were all strangers, yeah. i was moving between houses with people who i'd never known. it'll be someone who, maybe hears about me and says, "hey, well if damon ever needs someone to stay with, he can stay with me." and we sort of pass messages. we use a lot of burner phones. >> reporter: burner phones? >> yeah. >> reporter: you sound like you're in a spy movie. >> well, in a lot of ways that's what it felt like. >> reporter: so how often do you come out to the beach now? while on the run damon says he lived in around ten different homes, never staying anywhere long. du

so did her daughters run away to protest a family court ruling, like damon dumas? what brandon stahl, a reporter at the "minneapolis star tribune" wanted to find out. on the two-year anniversary of the girls disappearance, he decides to write a story. >> i wanted to know if the girls are okay and if i could find them. >> reporter: he didn't find the girls but he did find this man. dale nathan, a diminutive 81-year-old who has spent years working as an attorney in custody cases. dale had his legal license suspended after he refused to reveal where one of his clients was in hiding with her child. he is a fervent supporter of sandra. >> dale is somebody who believes to the bone that the family courts in minnesota are corrupt. >> reporter: the story dale tells is a doozy. he says he was with sandra on the night her daughters ran away. he says sandra and he were driving around in sandra's car when she took him to this field just blocks away from the rucki family home. we drove with dale to that spot. >> this is about the area, right back here, where sandra stopped. >> r