amy: that was dana evans. both write in the book also about donald bullock, an ededucator who accepted a pleaea deal in 2015. in order to receive a reduced sentence, he apologized for his role. herebyonald bullolock, do sincerely apologize to students, , as well staff members as the greater metropolitan elena community fermata involvement in the 2009 resorting in cheating or other dysfunctional ask. amy: you both write in the book that bullock "endured the shame of reading an apology after maintaining his innocence for so long, only for baxter to slap him with five years of probation, six months of weekend jail, a $5000 fine, and 1500 hours of community service." anna simonton, tell us what happened with the different people involved from apologies, plea agreements, to appeals. >> 35 educators were originally indicted. many of them took plea agreement and many of those folks, it required them to testify in this trial. 11 folks went to trial. the trial itself was nonsensical. there were witnesses who recanted o

evan. i want to go to ann millgram and dana bash. ann, let me start with you. as evan just said, the big question is why is paul manafort still lying about that meeting in trump tower if there was nothing untoured to lie about? >> i think there are a huge number of questions that are raised by this hearing that just happened including this question of why is he lying and also the fact that the government believes firmly that they have evidence to disprove what he told them. so i agree it might be rick gates. there may be other additional evidence, and so the fact that manafort -- there are multiple areas in which the government has said that he was not truthful, at least four areas, so this just becomes a really important question of why he's lying about it and what he's trying to conceal. >> he's pleaded guilty. >> right. >> he's already been convicted. he will be incarcerated in a federal prison so the question is who is he protecting and why. >> that is the big question. who is he protecting and why, right? there's been a guilty plea, then supposedly cooperat