. >> for more, we go to dana milbank and michael warren. a staff writer at the weekly standard. you've argued that some conservative elites have underestimated donald trump and misunderstood his appeal. what do you mean? >> any time he had someone in the republican establishment say, this is it, this is the end of trump, he keeps on rising, i think it's because they do misunderstand what his appeal is, we may listen to a donald trump press conference or an appearance, say, he's polished, all over the place, he's crazy, it's kind of a refreshing pace. he's quick witnessed. he's funny if you like that sort of thing, it's something you're seeing here in these polls, people are tired of the old way that politicians always seem to be acting. you can say what you want about donald trump, he's not skrupted, he's not doing anything that a normal conservative would tell a candidate to do. that's refreshing. that's why you're seeing him go up, up, up. >> and dana, you cannot argue with these polls that clearly show something. does that something mean he's going to be winning states? the v

joining me now are former governor ed rendell and dana milbank of ""the washington post."" thank you for being here. they had lunch today, do you think 2016 happened to come up? >> oh, i think it just might have, reverend. of course, that's what is on everybody's mind and the president may be running the country but he's a fairly political guy himself. of course he's interested. i don't think anybody knows at this point whether biden is going to do it, including joe biden but i think there is a lot of enthusiasm in the press because people would like to see a real race run, but i also think even a lot of hillary clinton supporters are thinking she would be better off if there were somebody else in this race to shake things up a bit, allow her to run against somebody on the issues rather than answering questions day after day on the e-mail server. >> would it serve secretary clinton, governor, to have somebody run against her on the issues? bernie sanders is attracting bigger crowds than anybody, even bigger than donald trump and would it serve her if biden came in and can b

. >> joining me now are msnbc political correspondent kacie hunt, dana milbank of "the washington post," and msnbc political analyst jonathan alter. thank you for being here. >> we're still waiting for the official announcement, but is the stage basically set? >> well, at this point, reverend, we know that the people that were worried about our governor, rick perry, former governor rick perry of texas and sitting ohio governor john kasich, those seem to be the two that in our analysis go back and forth. it's possible that there could be 11 candidates on stage. fox didn't rule that out. but we'll find out what their analysis looks like. a little tricky. if you leave out the governor of ohio, somebody who has been on the moves. or do you deny rick perry the chance to make a little bit of his redemption tour on the kind of stage that, frankly, caused his campaign to implode last time? >> well, we just got the official word, kacie. dana, fox announced that kasich is on the stage and perry is off the stage. dana, what does that mean? >> well, it shows that kasich wasn't too late in getting