. >> that was michigan attorney general, dana nessel, moments after announcing the battleground state is leading the charge in charge in fake electors and protecting election integrity. nestle says the nefarious plot to overturn president biden's win unfolded on december 14th, 2020. the group allegedly met in the basement of gop headquarters, citing multiple certificates claiming that they were the states, quote, duly elected qualified electors. the plot never materialized. now, each of these defendants faces eight felony counts, including forgery. you might recall, michigan wasn't the only state that had a slate of fake electors attempting to do trump's bidding. it is the first to press charges. now that arizona, georgia, nevada, new mexico, pennsylvania, and wisconsin have michigan as a blueprint, who will be next in line to stand up for democracy? joining me now live is michigan secretary of state, jocelyn benson. secretary, it's always so nice to have you on the show. look, some of the people involved in the scheme or high-level members of your states gop. including the former co-

this week, michigan attorney general dana nessel filed charges against 16 people who signed paperwork2020 presidential election. this is the first time anyone has been charged in the so-called fake electors scheme, which republicans from six other swing states also participated in. but to fully -- how we finally came to this moment of accountability in michigan, we actually have to go back a few years, before any votes were even cast, to understand. donald trump began sowing doubt about the presidential election months before it is actually called. notably, it august of 2020. he proclaims, the only way he would lose, is if the election is rigged. one day after election day, on november 4th, the state of michigan is called for joe biden. and if you days later, on november 7th, biden is declared the winner of the election, becoming president elect joe biden. one month later on december 14th, michigan's legitimate state electors meet at the state capital to affirm their votes for joe biden, but on that very same day, 16 other officials, republicans, who would eventually be known as the f

i know they're specifically saying this is dana nessel, but what is your response?think the job of the state's chief law enforcement officer as the attorney general is to follow the facts and when the law is violated and there's an abundance of evidence of guilt to seek prosecution for anyone. and you know, this attorney general has done this. anytime we hand over evidence of fraud in elections, be it from democratic or republican sources, we hand it over to her, and she prosecutes it, and notably most of the prosecution she has followed in this vein on election law violations have been against democrats throughout her tenure, so i know when i spoke with her, she was very clear and has said this publicly that the most political thing she could do in a situation like this where there's an abundance of evidence that election fraud occurred is to not prosecute, and instead, she is following the law and her duty under the law to ensure that the law is enforced and that there are consequences, regardless of for whom those consequences fall. >> one of the individuals who

. >> michigan attorney general dana nessel today, all part of a plot aimed at keeping donald trump infice. now, this marks the first time any fake electors have been charged with a crime related to the scheme. versions of this also took place in the battleground states of georgia, nevada, new mexico, arizona, pennsylvania, and wisconsin. and what these electors in michigan have charged with is very serious stuff. these michigan fake electors have each facing eight criminal felony charges including forgery and conspiracy to commit election law forgery. those carry penalties ranging from 5 to 14 years in prison for each charge. it is likely that other states have their eyes on this case because down in georgia fulton county d.a. fani willis is also investigating the fake electors in her state. so far ms. willis has struck immunity deals with at least 9 of those 16 fake electors in georgia and expected to announce criminal charges potentially against the remaining electors and perhaps even against donald trump next month. meanwhile officials in arizona announced last week that they are i

dana nessel is about accountability in the interest of making sure that this never happens again. you, a secretary of state, are running elections. it is a clear and top priority. what are you doing right now, proactively, to make sure that the 2024 election and your state run smoothly? >> a couple of things. number one, we are building off of what we have already learned, not just in 2020 but in 2022 to protect against and prepare for the tactics that have been employed in the past to not just interfere with the certification and electoral process, but interfere with the counting process, interfere through acts of intimidation or subversion, with the actual voting process. so, we've got a lot of plans in place that go on what we've done successfully in 2020 and 2022, working with law enforcement, developing rapid response and playing with our clerks, and also working with our pro democracy legislature to pass laws banning intimidation, to pass a voting rights amendment passed for the state of michigan that would give us the ability to protect voters from intimidation and ban dece

your states a.g., dana nessel, the first to file -- how is this decision, the timing of this decisionork? >> firstly, thanks for having me. it really is an important decision, because michigan was the first state in the nation to really seek consequences for those who were part of a coordinated national effort to nullify the votes of millions of american citizens. and it ultimately led to the tragedy at our capitol on january 6th. so, the important fact in this moment is to, as we prepare for the 2024 election cycle, which are very much in the midst of doing every day, that we state loudly and clearly, it will be consequences for anyone who takes actionable attempts to nullify the will of the voters to intervene with the will of the voters, and it's an important step so that we can be prepared for or deter any attempts to try again in the future. >> you have talked to special counsel jack smith's team. your sense of how interested they were in these so-called fake electors? >> i think a lot of the state electors schemes were well-known among the public. and so that's sort of part of w

and michigan's dana nessel. joining us is host symone sanders townsend. you all for being with us. attorney general, i'll turn to you first. what are some of the things that you are able to do in the state at least to preserve abortion rights? >> well, one of the things that we did, honestly, in advance even of the dobbs decision was to fight against our 1931 zombie law that we knew would come back into effect in the event that roe was overturned which, of course, it was. so working together with governor whitmer, we were able to ensure that that law was stayed and never went into effect, and then we brought a ballot proposal that passed in overwhelming numbers that codified row into the michigan tunings to ensure that we now have constitutionally protected reproductive rights, not just abortion, but birth control, the ability to manage a miscarriage and fertility treatments as part of our constitution in michigan. we are protecting rights not just for the folks who live here in michigan but for anyone who travels here as well. >> and attorney general ros

dana nessel's repeat charge of forgery and conspiracy against 16 alternative electors in michigan hasd valid concerns. despite being recognized as a liberal this a.g. constantly displays authoritarian ambitions. your response to that. >> look, the charges have been levied. you're innocent until proven guilty. everyone will get their day in court, and if there's no there there, they will walk. i think that's the bottom line is they will have their opportunities. but many of these folks spoke very publicly about wanting an alternative set of of results from our election. many of them were vocal about trying to get into our capitol building. even stuff you can google is out there. they will have their day in court. if they're accused but didn't do anything wrong, they ask get out scott free. it shouldn't be a problem. i think we are a nation of rules and laws. we always have to be a nation of rules and law. so people have to adhere to that law and if they don't they should be held accountable especially on something as clear and precious as our democracy. >> congresswoman, as always than

. >> today, michigan's attorney general dana nessel announced state felony charges against 16 fake electorsnts claiming that donald trump won michigan's electoral votes in 2020. two of the defendants were republican party officials at the time, including the head of the republican party in michigan. attorney general nestle said that they conspired in, quote, an organized effort to circumvent the lawfully cast ballots of millions of michigan voters in a presidential election. each of the 16 defendants have been charged with conspiracy to commit forgery, which carries a maximum sentence of 14 years. and conspiracy to commit election law forgery, which carries a maximum sentence of five years. attorney general nessel said, quote, this remains an ongoing investigation, into the michigan department attorney general has not ruled out potential charges against additional defendants. joining us now is michigan secretary of state, jocelyn benson. thank you very much for joining us again. fresh off of your recent appearance where we were discussing the fact the jack smith's investigators had intervie

in addition, the attorney general dana nessel has charged 16 people with felonies for falsely claiming to be presidential electors as they attempted to overturn trump's 2020 defeat in the state. >> as part of the orchestrated plan, we alleged 16 michigan residents met covertly in the basement of michigan gop headquarters and knowingly and of their own volition signed their names to multiple certificates stating they were the duly elected and qualified electors for president and vice president of the united states of america for the state of michigan. that was a lie. amy: one of those charged is meshawn maddock, former co-chair of the michigan republican party, a close ally to trump and the wife of state representative matt maddock. meshawn maddock previously told a gathering of local republicans the trump campaign had directed the fake elector scheme. in china, a series of unrelenting heat waves has triggered a soaring demand for electricity leading to unprecedented amounts of coal consumption at china's many coal-fired power plants. this comes after the chinese government approved a r

michigan, 16 of donald trump's fake electors were charged with felonies by michigan attorney general dana nessel. no one outside of michigan was charged in that case. but when the fake electors scheme was coming together in many states, in december of 2020, trump white house aide stephen miller was very -- to take full credit for what he called an alternate slate of electors. >> the only date in the constitution is january 20th. so, we have more than enough time to write the wrong of this fraudulent election results, and certified all trump as the winner of the election. as we speak, today, an alternate slate of electors in the contested states is going to vote, and we are going to send those results up to congress. this will ensure that all of our legal remedies will remain open. that means if we win these cases in the courts, that we can direct -- that the ultimate alternate state of electors will be certified. -- wisconsin, pennsylvania can do the same. and likewise, congress has that opportunity as well to do the right thing. >> leading off our discussion tonight, glenn kirschner. she's a fo

gren is the 9th name on the list of accused fake electors, charged by michigan attorney general dana nessel. >> they were told to come, they needed us, and we went, and we were given cake and coffee. we were called by a member of the republican party. be sure you come. we really need your help. the scam was bigger than all of us. >> it was bigger than all of us. neal, if this fake elector's plot goes forward and becomes the basis for another indictment, how important could testimony from individuals like that prospective fake elector be if they argue that trump was pressuring them and insiders were pressuring them? >> what you just played, melissa, is evidence of a very serious crime, defrauding the united states. the united states spends a ton of money administering elections and what these people did, what the trump campaign did is they went to seven different states and told the state legislatures, hey, you can throw out the popular vote and replace it with your own slate of people that you can send to the electoral college in washington on january 6th. that is preposterous. that's a leg

. >> to that and, the michigan attorney general dana nessel said that she effectively reopened this probehad been deferring to the federal investigation but sort of didn't know what was happening there, so basically moved forward again on her own. do you think that the news that jack smith's investigative team has been also moving forward and parallel on the vague electors plot complicates this in any way? how do you see this hand and glove, or the coordination or any cooperation between the state agencies who are running with the fake electors plot and the feds who are also investigating the same thing? >> i don't think there's been any coordination and i think that has been intentional. i think the department of justice has done this investigation on its own, it is not coordinated with state attorney general, with that dna in georgia, with the district attorney in new york or anywhere else. they didn't coordinate with the select committee either. we turned over to them all of our transcripts, documents, upon the completion of our work. they then used that information to inform their inv

today in a statement the attorney general from michigan, dana nessel addressed the charges. >> they weren'th of the defendants knew it. >> my panel is back with me. david, when you look at that and you look at -- what i was so struck by are the ages of many of these people who have served in republican politics in michigan for years, for decades. >> i think, you know, you look at some of the people who were there on january 6th, who are bankers and lawyers and, you know, there were people who were given to believe that they were doing their patriotic duty, that this -- and apparently if you look at the january 6th commission, this was an effort that was run through the republican national committee. that was orchestrated by the trump campaign. so, they thought they were doing their duty by doing this. it doesn't excuse what they did. they were told not to bring their phones in. they were not not to record anything. it was obvious they were doing -- it should have been obvious they were doing something wrong but there will be a lot of lives strewn across the road ruined by the schemes of don

late today, michigan attorney general dana nessel announced felony charges against 16 michigan republicansn the 2020 election. the 16 people each face eight charges including conspiracy and election law forgery. here's video from december 2020 showing a crowd of fake electors trying to enter the state capitol to cast their fabricated electoral votes for trump. they were denied entry because the actual legal electors who were there to cast their ballots for joe biden and kamala harris were already inside. per the michigan attorney general, the fake electors allegedly met in the basement of the state's republican party headquarters and signed multiple certificates claiming they were the duly-elected and qualified electors for president and vice president of the united states of america for the state of michigan. and that, the a.g. said, was a lie. >> the false electors' actions undermine the public's faith in the eintegrity of our elections and not only violated the spirit of the laws enshrining and defending our democracy, but we believe also plainly violated the laws by which we administer

but in fact we later learned that attorney general dana nessel has been investigating the electors and in january of 2022, she refers the matter to the justice department. now at the same time, nestle says there are grounds for criminal charges, but because there was a coordinated effort between republican parties in other states, she is compelled to send the investigation to the feds. in between june of 2021, a michigan senate panel led by republicans and -- announces there's no evidence of voter fraud in the 2020 election results. then in june of 2022, the former state republican party -- delivers bombshell testimony to the january 6th select committee detailing how the fake electors discussed hiding in the michigan state capitol building on the eve of the official electoral college vote, so these officials could cast their fraudulent votes in the chamber the very next day. an idea that cox described as quote, insane and inappropriate. fast forward to december of last year, when the select committee released its final report, that report actually included a very interesting detail. i

we see -- in michigan, for example, i have full faith that our attorney general, dana nessel is and continuescoordination not just with other states but the federal government in identifying the best path to justice, be it at the state or federal level when you do have multiple things happening in multiple states at the same time. i have faith that a lot of those conversations are on going and that everyone is taking their roles and responsibilities very seriously here and looking to see how to achieve justice. a lot of our conversations are recognizing we're less than two years away from the 2024 election cycle in which one of the key perpetrators of a past effort to overturn democracy remains a candidate for the presidency. a lot of the work on the election administration side is in some ways to anticipate these ak ticks and perhaps new one and develop a strategy to preempt them or react to them. looking at the differences in the playing field from 2020 to '24. there are changes in the state legislature in wisconsin that are concerning in terms of the supermajority. arizona with governor ho

over in michigan, the state's attorney general, dana nessel has announced felony charges against 16 fakelaiming that trump won the 2020 election as part of a scheme to overturn the results there. today also marking the first pretrial hearing in jack smith's other criminal case against the ex-president when examining his role in withholding classified documents from the government and keeping them at his personal residence. it has already resulted in indictments. his co-conspirator, walt nauta, appeared before u.s. district judge aileen cannon in a hearing that wrapped up in the last hour. that hearing ended without a decision on timing from cannon. msnbc is reporting from inside the courtroom and reveals there was a heated discussion on both sides about how quickly the case would be ready to go to trial. judge cannon appeared to brush aside the arguments from trump's lawyers that just because their client is running for president a jury could not be picked before an election. she did appear to have a lot of sympathy for their other argument that this case is so complex that they can't fo

. >> that was michigan attorney general dana nessel announcing felony charges for false electors.laiming they were michigan's dually elected electors. some of the electors tried to deliver the documents to the state senate but were turned away. each of the defendants face several forgery charges. that could result in multiyear jail sentences. the 16 people include a state republican national committee chairwoman as well as a former state republican party co-chair. unbelievable. >> it really is. joyce vance, again, gravity returns, people -- again, you wonder what people were thinking at the time, you know, we're going to lie about being electors. donald trump has this keystone cop plan for fake electors which is going to end up snagging a lot of people not only the state level but the federal level. what is going to be the outcome for these people? >> so, attorney general nessel i think said words that will resonate throughout this historical conversation, this question of, how did the fever dream last for so long? she said democracy has to be defended. she's put down her markers