and i have some of them who actually started writing a book, like danny gunns, and i talk about them n the book. danny -- [inaudible] >> i recently started working in the jails and muchappreciate your book and have been learning a lot. thank you much. >> thank you. >> my question is the plan to close liker's island -- ryker's island, plans to cut the population in half, it also calls for cutting the -- [inaudible] by half and increasing the ratios of civilian staff including program -- [inaudible] so i'm wondering if you have thoughts on kind of what the program looks like. like, i think, you know, we have this idea that programs, civilian staff need to be a more important part of jail culture and what's happening in the jails. i guess if you have any thoughts on what that looks like, what is an effective program going to be to engage these communities. >> i'm so glad you asked that, but because i just came out of working for the department of corrections as a program counselor. so they got rid of solitary confinement for all 16 or 17-year-olds, and then -- >> and 18 through 21 is. >>