it's a tough one danny, it's always great to speak with you danny, thank you so much danny moses. as we sit here talking to danny, wells fargo filing for a 9.5 mixed shelf securities debts, warrants, purchase contracts, guarantees your first reaction to this, karen. >> good for them everyone should file a shelf, right? everyone should. if you can do it now where there is sort of no cost to it in terms of your reputation or anything like that, you should it does also make me wonder, if you go to this window and bring whatever assets you have, is that a walk of shame >> yes. >> is that like going to a methadone clinic >> yeah, totally. >> i think so. but do we need to have that disclosure i don't know >> the disclosure that it's a walk of shame? >> the disclosure who went to the window, how much did they bring? >> right. >> in '08, the government said we're giving all of you a huge swath of common. so we're not going to tell you who really needs it. >> this is wells fargo who is the lowest loan to deposit ratio. they're the ones we are lauding yesterday. they are at 37% -- sorry, of

. >> our friend danny moses was on the show, and he made an interesting point, is that the difference between '08 and '09 and what's happening now is we've exchanged credit risk for interest rate risk so. what comes after the interest rate risk? it's credit risk we have been talking about hyg work guy and karen on this desk for a long time and talked about the relative weakness. it has tracked but we haven't seen a whole lot of defaults we have jim talking about the commercial real estate pace. do credit issues come after the insurance rate shock is that the thing that keeps these banks down last point, when you think about what will come with the bailouts is going to be further regulation, and that makes these banks just much less investable. >> i don't necessarily disagree with anything you just said. the only issue that i take is that the large cap banks took $30 billion. granted they didn't give it out of their pocket and it's gone forever, but they don't want these banks to fail. yellen sat down with jamie diamond and said, you're going to figure this out if jamie diamond is sit