what kind of president would he have been, darcy olsen?> barry would have been something that we don't see too often today. i think he would have been a very honest president. i think he would have been very candid, as he was his whole life. that was the way he campaigned, it was the way that he sat in office, it was how he was after office, and i think just -- i think that candor is something that people loved about barry goldwater, and it's -- you know, it's one of the reasons that so many people sought out barry goldwater even after he was in office, and he was so well respected and liked by so many people because, you know, you knew with barry goldwater where you stood. he always put his principles first, he kind of, as rick was saying, had a tin ear sometimes to messaging and what people might think, and he put his principles before partisanship, before party, before politics. and, you know, it's hard to say whether he would have been able to work with congress that way, but it's an exercise that i, for one, would have liked to have s

sharing your story, darcy olsen? >> you know, it's really interesting on the civil rights issue. i think that barry did get a bum rap from the media and continues to do so today when you hear people talk about his civil rights record and they'll talk about how he didn't vote for the 1964 act, he didn't speak out enough, so really he must not have had that in his heart. that couldn't have been further from the truth about who barry was. barry, you know, in the goldwater department store, they had integrated that store long before anybody else had done that. he really did have a color-blind heart. anybody you meet will tell you that. anybody who met barry would tell you that. and one of the greatest stories that i love that relates to this, and we don't know if it's true or not, i was talking to his son, barry jr., i don't know if it's apocryphal or true, but the way it goes is that he went to a very fancy golf course in bel air. and wanted to play a round of golf. and they said, barry goldwater, you can't play here because you are jewish. and he responded by saying, you know, i'm

. >> darcy olsen, quintessential barry goldwater? >> absolutely, people loved barry goldwater. what he was expressing is akin to give me liberty or give me death. in america we believe this. you know? and i think that sometimes the loss of the 64 campaign is mistakenly interpreted as an outright rejection of those ideas. and it wasn't anything of the sort. you can hear it from the cheering. you can see it from the reagan revolution. you see it from the ideas being alive today. that is what the liberal press at the time wanted people to believe. in fact when he lost the campaign and the new york times washington bureau chief, james reston, had said that barry goldwater not only had lost but lost the entire could sort of cause. they were always talking about the death of conservativism. that is wishful thinking. it remains wishful thinking today on the part of the press. that is classic barry goldwater. it reflects what many americans believe. which is you cannot be too passionate, too committed, too extreme if you want to use that word, and the defense of the constitutional free