let me start with darrell newel, and in a sentence he is someone who manages the blueberry harvest, but low and behold, it's not necessarily an organic harvest. >> i know. i was so disappointed. i had this stereotype of all the ceremonies and there's some tribal chairman picking the first blueberry and there'd be prayers and maybe a drum circle, and he said, no, we just go pick them when they are # ripe. [laughter] that's it. he said, and then i thought, of course, they are organic because they are native people. well, that's completely wrong. he said, they're commercial. they probably go into the cake mixes. that was an early interview, and it was very interesting. this is a man much like many people i interviewed who were sort of bemused by these questions of the naive outsider with this view that everything has to be organic and close to nature. that's just ridiculous. >> and he also, since, had difficulties to overcome in his life with the abandonment in his family. again, a theme that runs through many american families, but it especially runs through the native american families t

let me start with darrell newell, who is from the a tribe. in passing, i could say he's someone who manages the blueberry harvest but lo and behold it isn't necessarily an organic harvest. >> i know. i was so disappointed. i had the stereotype there would be all these ceremonies. and the tribal chairman would pick the first blueberry. and there would be prayers and a drum circle and he said no, we basically go pick them when they're ripe. [laughter] >> and that was it. and then he said -- and then i thought, of course, they are organic because these are native people so it has to be organic. well, that's completely wrong. he said no, they're commercial. they probably go into pillsbury blueberry cake mix. that was an early interview and this was is he interesting. this is a man much like many people i interviewed who were sort of bemused by these questions of the naive outsider who had this view that things have to be organic and close to nature. that's just ridiculous. >> and he also, as i understand, had difficulties he needed to overcome in