let me start with darrell newel who is in a sentence someone who manages the blueberry harvest, but low and behold is not necessarily an organic harvest. >> oh, i know. i was disappointed. i had this stereotypes of ceremonies and the tribal chairman would pick the first blueberry, and there'd be prayers and maybe a dropple circle, and he said, no, we just basically pick them when they are ripe. [laughter] that was it, and then he said -- then i thought, of course, they are organic because they are native people. well, that's wrong. he said no, they're commercial. they probably go into pistol -- pillsbury cake mix. it was interesting. this was a man like many i interviewed were sort of abused of the questions from the naive outsider that things have to be organic and close to nature. that's just ridiculous. >> and he also, as i understand, had difficulties he needed to overcome in his life with abandonment in his family. this is a scene running through many faps, but it especially runs through the native american families you portray. >> he had a horrible time. well, his mother essential

let me start with darrell newell, who is from the a tribe. in passing, i could say he's someone who manages the blueberry harvest but lo and behold it isn't necessarily an organic harvest. >> i know. i was so disappointed. i had the stereotype there would be all these ceremonies. and the tribal chairman would pick the first blueberry. and there would be prayers and a drum circle and he said no, we basically go pick them when they're ripe. [laughter] >> and that was it. and then he said -- and then i thought, of course, they are organic because these are native people so it has to be organic. well, that's completely wrong. he said no, they're commercial. they probably go into pillsbury blueberry cake mix. that was an early interview and this was is he interesting. this is a man much like many people i interviewed who were sort of bemused by these questions of the naive outsider who had this view that things have to be organic and close to nature. that's just ridiculous. >> and he also, as i understand, had difficulties he needed to overcome in