joining us now is darren murph ahead of remote learning at get lab, good afternoon and thanks for joining us. >> absolutely, thank you for having me. >> you've always been an advocate for working remotely as an option. we heard through our reporting that google and apple are trying to get employees back. apple supposedly wants full- time in person by fallen google three days in person but some employees are pushing back. against coming back to the office. is any of this surprise you? >> no, it's not surprising at all. knowledge workers that have shown over the past 18 months that they've been able to be creative and get their jobs done, layer on top of that they've realized that the recaptured commute time is better spent engaging with their family and community. so institutional power is not easily relinquished but neither are individual freedoms so the friction you feel greatest transfer of workplace power that many of us have seen in our lifetimes. >> okay but if it's been shown productivity wise there was no loss with a lot of these engineers and other office workers working from home