here is darren walker president of the ford foundation. i am pleased to have both of them at this table to talk about philanthropy today, its impact, and how long foundations should exist and what are the new rules or new perspectives on foundations so i'm pleased to have my friends here to talk about that. the main thesis of this is that the trend towards giving while living is endangering the long term survival of endowed perpetualal in substitutions and that endangerment is not good. >> yes, this is correct. >> rose: explain that. >> the reason the endangerment is not good, if you looked at the american philanthropic landscape non-profit organizations the ones we all know working on the environment, human rights, civil rights. every one of those organizations has been founded by and nurtured by perpetual foundations not spinal down foundations. if you look what motivations a spin dumped foundation for people to give money to things it's really an attempt to replicate in the non-profit sector the achievements they had in the for profit s

also, darren walker from the -- the president of the ford foundation.eased to have both of them at the table to talk about philanthropy. and what are the new rules i am -- on foundations. i am pleased to have my friends here to talk about that. themain thesis is that trend of giving while living is endangering the long-term survival of endowed perpetual institutions and that is not good. explain what that means. the reason it is not good, if you look at the american philanthropic landscape and nonprofit organizations, every -- the ones we know working in the environment and civil rights, every one of those organizations has been founded and nurtured by perpetual foundations. if you look at motivates a spend down to give money it -- it is an attempt to replicate a nonprofit in the civic sector what achievements they had. they are looking for a big bang. the problem is you don't get a big bang fast. what we know about the spending of money in a short period of time does not correlate to what you would expect if you put a lot of money and action and work i

. >> rose: we talk with joel fleishman and darren walker the president of the