. >> -- interactions, and it wound up being dashiell hammett and chandler and they were sort of -- still sort of doing that, but it became its own -- >> right. >> -- thing, so when i reimport it back into science fiction, i'm both looking for the -- the noire flavor -- >> right. >> -- that i love myself. but i'm also looking for those original tools of social analysis which it can -- which are still readily there. >> what's interesting is that you don't really consider this necessarily to be a science fiction book as far as it goes, right? it's really -- as you say, it's more of a traditional bit of literary fiction that happens to have science fiction elements to it, but you don't pigeonhole this book necessarily as science fiction? >> well, it's -- that's, as they say on facebook about relationships, is complicated. >> okay. [ laughter ]. >> well -- well-played. >> it's very compli -- >> explain. >> it's very complicated indeed. well, science fiction is absolutely my native literary culture. i can no more not be from science fiction than i can not be from southwest virginia, and i both