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dave cohen, we're going to have to get to you some specialty in natural disasters or, i don't know, maybe bank fallout so we don't have to call you so often when there's a mass shooting especially when the target is a school, but i wonder what goes through your mind when this familiar headline flashes across all of our phones? >> sometimes i don't know how to feel. this has been a bad week because a lot of people probably didn't hear there was a shooting in denver a few days ago at east high school which was three blocks from where i lived in denver for ten years. i've been in that school many times. i wrote big chunks of the book "columbine" across the street, and yeah, i can't tell you. i have a personal connection to about five mass shootings now, and i wonder how many people are left in america who have not. and i agree with senator campbell and thank god for ashbey beasley. it's going to come to people like them and -- one thing recently i took heart from, people still doing the work. a couple weeks ago, earlier this month i was asked to be the keynote speaker for the national pta's

cohen. there's a reason for that. he's totally unreliable. >> daven's credibility have to do with why the fed, the fdny dropped the case or didn't pursue charges against trump in this case? >> michael cohen is the lynch p linchpin in this case here. there's a little bit of truth that they didn't like michael cohen as a key witness. but also in his book, he said that the reason why the fed dropped the investigation into donald trump was because bill barr told them to do so. also remember, the department of justice has an internal policy against indicting a sitting president. why didn't the sdny prosecute trump for this after bill barr left? and i think the answer is by that time, you had january 6th and so there are a lot of bigger fish to fry involving donald trump than this matter. so i don't think costello's explanation really holds water. and i don't think he made a very good witness in front of the grand jury which is is why the prosecutors didn't call michael cohen back as a rebuttal witness. >> elliot, i wanted to ask you about that. they didn'

dave pecker, the chair of the committee the publishes the enquirer, the date killed stories about that -- and was involved in hush money payments. they gave prosecutors the information they needed to charge michael cohenoney scandal, which brings us to this week. as we wait for a manhattan grand jury to decide on's recommendation about whether to charge trump with his role on the hush money payments, we have news it does jurors are reconvening tomorrow. a report saying that they might hear from one where witness before they vote. joining us now is karen and gavel of -- i'm so sorry, karen. >> if you so much for being here tonight, karen. i swear i'll get your name right another time. >> karen, you have a wealth of experience in this kind of legal situation, if not the particular case. i wonder first and foremost, the kind of back and forth that we've seen again, involving the grand jury, bringing them back, a suggestion of one more witness, with rumors out there that that one more witness might be michael cohen and might be somebody else. at the start of the week, bob kclo, one of the former legal minds involved in all of this back in the day came out and really attacked michael cohen's character. he'

cohen says and if it rings true. he testified before congress that a lot of dave ms. were all over the lot.ing positions, switching versions of the facts, but that is up to the prosecutor. there are legal problems as well. >> let's talk about those. >> i mentioned, the fact that it is unprecedented to enhance a state crime based on a federal crime. there are state crimes as well that trump committed. you don't have to show he was convicted of those crimes, but you have to show that there was a violation of state law. the provisions, for example, with a conviction of a lawyer provides automatic disbarment, relative to the highest court of deals as to whether the conviction of a federal crime would be sufficient for automatic does are meant, and the appeal of twice now would be sufficient, so those are arguments that undoubtedly the prosecutor would make, and we would have to see how those play out. >> if i have this right, the new york election law that is part of this is 17 -- a conspiracy to promote election. conspiracy to promote orrevent an election by unlawful means which conspiracy has

cohen on the stand as a witness today. if th it is the grand jury's decision to make. >> dave aronberg, if trump were going to be arrested tomorrowbeen notified of that by today >> good morning, joe i think they would be notified just right before. that's why i think that trump made up the part about the indictment coming tomorrow i think it's probably coming towards the end of the week. the reason why he mentioned tomorrow is i think he wants his supporters in the street to protest to try to intimidate prosecutors. prosecutors aren't going to be intimidated. we're used to this kind of stuff. we're going to follow the evidence and the law it is interesting, this is the "lock her up" crowd that's saying all that stuff. they're the ones that introduced this whole thing to our lexicon about prosecuprosecuting your pl enemies, but when it's their guy, a liberal is a conservative that's been arrested. >> the timing usually is mondays and wednesdays, so it would be after one of those if we do get an indictment. speaker mccarthy has been flat-out threatening to use his powers in the house of representatives to potentially call the manha

>> michael cohen will be testifying before the grand jury let's bring in the current d.a. of palm beach county, daves lawyer said -- well, i won't say everything isn't true, but a lot of it doesn't pass the sniff test. >> is he new to the team >> he cycles them in and out >> i think i know this gentleman. >> if you -- if a member of congress paid hush money to a porn star a week before his election, and cycled it to go around -- through a third party, then report it, they'd be in jail >> good morning, joe and mika. you can hear the criticism from these folks saying, this is small ball small potatoes as you pointed out, this payment is what sent michael cohen to federal prison trump then was an unindicted co-co co-conspirator he was saved from prosecution by doj internal policy not to indict a sitting president. >> hold on a second. let's underline that fact, dave. say it again somebody has already been sent to jail for this crime >> correct he'll be the key witness against donald trump at trial. he is testifying, reportedly, before the grand jury today. that's the last step before, in my ind, an ind

dave aaronburg, he's back with us. again, i keep hearing all these people saying this would not happen if it were not donald trump. i have given three examples, they are the simplest examples. >> look at cohenve equal justice under the law here in our country? it's iconic the biggest critics right now about what alvin bragg is about to do. the ones chanting lock her up, and now that their candidate is there -- remember, mark pomerantz wrote a book about alvin bragg, but we prosecutors don't do politics and are not intimidated by political pressure and we follow the evidence and law. the law and order folks are suddenly obsessed now with that, and now it applies to people not inside the maga bubble. >> john, you said this past fall you were offered a chance to work and represent former president donald trump and you declined that opportunity. tell us now, if you will, give us your assessment of this case, and in particular where you think things stand and what last-minute wrinkles from the costello testimony may occur? >> i will walk in the lion's deny and disagree with my good friend, dave, and you, joe, also. having gone through watergate, i believe to my core nobody is above the law. nobo