. >> host: dave cullen how did you approach the writing of this book? >> guest: i first took a stab at a book a year after columbine and it was going to be a small b book and i approach it that way and just based on the killers and also unraveling the myth. there were so many myths and the things we know about columbine is wrong ,-com,-com ma the basic things about them targeting jocks and even been a -- 's shooting. i was trying to unravel those myths and i wrote it the first draft as a protagonist trying to unravel all of this and figure out how it happened and the detective story of what really happened in columbine. meanwhile i was trying to understand the killers better and really understand what happened to them. that took me a couple of years in the story just wasn't ready. it was really the five-year point where i did a piece called the depressive and the psychopath where we have the fbi for the first time diagnose the killers and i started over at that point and realized i wanted to stories, but before story in the after story. the before story

dave cullen who chronicled the aftermath of columbine will join me. you're watching msnbc's continuing live coverage of the tragedy in connecticut. [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus presents the cold truth. i have a cold, and i took nyquil, but i'm still "stubbed" up. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] it doesn't have a decongestant. no way. [ male announcer ] sorry. alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms plus has a fast acting decongestant to relieve your stuffy nose. [ sighs ] thanks! [ male announcer ] you're welcome. that's the cold truth! [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus. ♪ oh what a relief it is! ♪ [ male announcer ] to learn more about the cold truth and save $1 visit alka-seltzer on facebook. >> quiet, solemn. you know, very depressing. a lot went on. you know, you feel for the community, all the people. the parents. children. devastating. >> welcome back. following the tragic newtown school shooting, the tight-knit community is struggling to come to grips with losing so ma

and dave cullen, who wrote the definitive book on the columbine mass shooting, he said today, "in my head i have always insisted that any death is just as tragic. but little kids, this is overwhelming me." we're going to be covering the latest news out of newtown, connecticut this hour. and there is new news. law enforcement officer says the weapons used in today's shootings were legally purchased by the gunman's mother. another victim believed to be the shooter's mother was found at a home nearby. also, we're told that the gunman's brother, who was briefly misidentified by authorities as the shooter himself, he was questioned by police today after being picked up in new jersey. the brother is not believed to have had any involvement in the shootings. we're going to be getting to all of that latest information, including some reports tonight from live at the scene. we're also going to be talking about the policy debate that has to arise in the aftermath of this nearly unspeakable event, despite all the calls for that debate to not happen, at least not today. we're going to be talking

host: dave cullen? guest: well, the generational idea of that this generation of kids -- when i hear arguments like that i think that's really sort of -- well, when i hear that and somebody's sort of quickie explanation and it's all because of this, i think that's an unwillingness to look at the data and to look at the studies that have been done about people actually doing these killings. the secret service looked at every single one of them and i'll point out that they studied 6 years of data. that was -- 26 years of data. that's going to back to 1974. these have been going on for more than 30 years. so if we're talking about that generation of kids doing it, we're talking about two or three different generations here. which generation is it? so those things kind of fall apart and we need to look at the actual kids doing. she also brought up bullying and it turns out that bullying is present -- was present in the lives of more shooters than the average public. so that there may be some association in

dave cullen. amy goodman of democracy now.re going to talk with congresswoman carolyn mccarthy whose husband was killed by the long island gunman right after this. .. [ shirt ] merry christmas, everybody! not so much. ho ho ho! this isn't that kind of deal. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. save on ground shipping at fedex office. [ male announcer ] by earning a degree from capella more iuniversity, you'll have the knowledge to make an impact in your company and take your career to an even greater place. let's get started at capella.edu. i have obligations. cute tobligations, but obligations.g. i need to rethink the core of my portfolio. what i really need is sleep. introducing the ishares core, building blocks for the heart of your portfolio. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes

. >> dave cullen, it's deb feyerick. you saw what happened with columbine. saw how that played out. the question, obviously, is when somebody wants to do something like this, why do you have those who are in fact most vulnerable to going to an elementary school to 5, 6, 7, 8, 9-year-olds, there's something pathological about that. >> it is. it was really appalling to me. i went back and forth between -- well, i'll tell you, i spent the last 13 years trying to understand the killers and trying to sort of put myself in their shoes and understand why. because i've been with so many different conferences with, you know, people who are authorities and have been studying these for their entire career, shrinks, law enforcement, other people, one thing that i've settled on is that the killer always has a reason. in their mind, it's not senseless reason. there was some reasoning that worked for them and if we're going to really want to solve this, we have to get in their heads and understand from their point of view. so that's been my mission for the last several yea

dave cullen spent ten years writing and researching about that massacre and joins us now. dave, thank you for being here. i guess your book came out about columbine ten years after the tragedy and the most eye opening thing about what you're reporting found was that all of the -- everything we thought we knew about columbine in the first week, two months and months after it happened was basically false and a lot of false narratives. and you basically searched for a sort of satisfying motive that we could all understand and you couldn't really find one. i wonder based of your experience if there are lessons to keep in mind piecing together what happened here in newtown in the weeks ahead. >> sure. there are a whole lot of lessons. one thing is that the media is pretty good in getting the facts right and there's always confusion in the beginning, especially the first hours and awful things like how many people have been killed and logistical things but it sorts itself out pretty quickly and normally the facts we do pretty well with. that's okay. it's the jumping to conclusion

dave cullen, thank you. >> guest: thank you very much. i really enjoyed it. now encore booknotes, author jean strouse was a guest on booknotes to talked about her book, "morgan" american financier, 1999. it portrays him as a man who revolutionized banking and the american economic structure while damaging any of his personal and professional relationships. this is about an hour. c-span: jean strouse, author of "morgan: american financier," there are a couple pictures inside your book. can you tell us the story behind these two? >> guest: those pictures were taken by the photographer, edward steichen, in 1903. he was just starting out as a photographer and morgan was sitting for a portrait--having his portrait painted. and he hated to sit still for very long, so alfred stieglitz, who was a very famous photographer, decided that morgan should have a photo--the painter should have a photograph to work from, and hired edward steichen, who was just starting out in his career, to do it. steichen came in--he actually posed a janitor in the shot while he set it up to

laura flanders from grit tv.org and dave cullen the author of columbine. >>> and i want to thank chrisg me in his seat today. you can catch me at 3:00 p.m. eastern on weekdays on the cycle. chris will be back at the desk next weekend on saturday and sunday. up next is melissa harris-perry. it may be the law of the land. republican governors are lining up to do what they can to obstruct the affordable care act. melissa has the former obama administration official. that's melissa harris-perry coming up next. we'll see you next week here on "up." and some difficult ones. but, through it all, we've persevered, supporting some of the biggest ideas in modern history. so why should our anniversary matter to you? because for 200 years, we've been helping ideas move from ambition to achievement. and the next great idea could be yours. ♪ maybe you want to incorporate a business. or protect your family with a will or living trust. and you'd like the help of an attorney. at legalzoom a legal plan attorney is available in most states with every personalized document to answer questions. get started