-- i mean, we thought -- >> you had a couple of different people, dave slam that went on to -- dave schramm. >> but we learned how different it was. and those people played with us. but we weren't a band. and when james joined. >> you don't think you became a band until jaimed joined? >> -- james joined? >> without a doubt. and then we started practicing and playing all the time, and even if we didn't have a show, we got taght and practiced, -- together and practiced, and we really started -- i mean, leaps and bounds just in the confidence we had and -- >> but there were no bands in particular or no styles of music or nothing that you can point back to saying we were trying to emulate this. we really listened obsessively to this and we thought that we actually might -- our identity as a band, our creative identity might be actually reflective of this? >> the aspect of influence, it's always a word i've run from, but to the extent that i'm brace it, it has more to do with an approach than it does with -- i was saying like the db's have these parties, and that really definitely rubbed off, th