they allowed obama to get away with his relationship to the former weather terrorist, bill ayers, david axelrod said he was just somebody he knew from the neighborhood that kids go to school together. they had a relationship over ten years in several venues and a couple of foundations. they were closer. i would like to switch to immigration and just look at how much immigration has been seen as a -- they said in the 1993, when seems when you look at mass immigration, we have reverted to a massive policy of immigration without ever making a decision to do so. i don't have this in the book. i did do a paper on it about the 1965 immigration reform acts. which essentially lifted the racialistic, national origin quotas at the time both the democratic party which backed it and "the times" which took it's cues from them said it would not swell the rolls of immigrants with third world -- wouldn't change the demographic character of a country, nor would there be millions of people lining up. in fact, both have happened. whether the demographic change is good or bad makes no difference to me. what is imp

rose: it used to be said in this white house there was a great debate between on the one hand david axelrod and the political people and other people, summers and others. what does this say about his instinct for leadership? >> you know, i have to say i'm disappointed. he comes in promising hope and change... >> rose: and boldness. >> and i don't care if you're on the lefttor right. this is not change. if you think the government is basically fine but needs to be adjusted for some performance-based evaluations, this is your budget. i don't know too many people who think that, where they're on the left or the right. this is not boldness. and it's not that imaginative. fine, he's going to increase spending on education, infrastructure. but he's got a lot of smart people who have spent their lives creating creative proposals to try out. where's that stuff here? it's not there where's the vision? what kind of country are we going to be in 20, 30 years? i don't see much vision. >> rose: but you believe he has the ideas and he's simply being co-opted by the politics? or do you believe he doesn't

david axelrod said he was just somebody knew from the neighborhood. his kids go to school together. in fact they had a relationship over ten years and several different venues that a couple of the foundations. they were closer. i would like to switch now to immigration and just look at just how much immigration has been seen as a fait accompli. nathan glazer in 1993 in the new republic said it seems when you look at mass immigration we have in sensibly refer to it to a policy of mass immigration without ever making the decision to do so. i don't have this in the book, but i did do a paper on at about the 1965 immigration reform act, which essentially lifted the realistic national origins quote as at that time, both the democratic party, which backed it, and the times which took its cues, from them said it would not swell the role of immigrants with the third world -- wouldn't change the demographic character of a country, nor would there be millions of people lining up. in fact, both have happened. whether the demographic changes good or bad makes no difference to me. what is import