i do think it is important, as david axelrod said, the way they have handled it, has been not the greatest damage control in the world, but they are very different. the key here, i've been told by sources in the archives, is cooperation, and i am told that they really believe that this was just a mistake. >> andrew, can you explain exactly how the fbi works with the special counsel on an investigation like this? >> sure, so, certainly in the mueller special counsel example, which i was deeply involved in building that team for special counsel mueller, the way it typically works is those fbi agents and analysts and support staff, administrative staff that are necessary to stand up that effort, are essentially sent over to the special counsel office and told to report only to the special counsel and the attorneys working with them. you want to have a very clean break between those resources and their prior reporting structures back at fbi headquarters or any field offices that they may have come from, so the special counsel really has a completely independent fbi workforce to deploy, to do i

cnn political commentator and top obama adviser david axelrod. andrew, you know special counsel robert hur. you worked with him. what should we know about him? >> well, i think jamie summed it up well. rob has an extraordinary background. he is a hardworking guy, a straight shooter. i knew him when he was the assistant, the principle assistant deputy attorney general, as we refer to them, as the pay-dag for rod rosenstein. he was a key member of that leadership team at the department at the time. attorney general jeff session and rod rosenstein being his bosses. yeah, he is a straight forward guy with the right background and the right reputation. obviously, deeply connected on the republican side of things, which should protect him for a very short period of time. >> andrew, this large issue now encompasses the sitting president and his immediate predecessor. do you think there would be interesting inside the justice department of finding out whether there are classified documents that got removed after other presidencies? >> there's always an i

anchor of inside politics sunday and also senior political commentator and former obama advisor, david axelrod. david, the white house, remember the physical battles with obama ministration and house republicans, do you think they're taking the right position to say no negotiation, we want a clean debt ceiling? >> i think, anderson, we're in the first part of the first act of a play here, and i think it's early for them to take any other position. first of all, i think they saw what happened in 2011, where we went right up to the brink. there were significant givebacks made, and they were painful and disruptive. i don't think they want to say, we will reward this behavior because they think it invites it again and again. that set, sometime between now and june, this is going to have to be resolved. it's likely going to be result between some of the more moderate members of the caucus on the republican side and the senate, as well. so, i think we will see several more chapters here before this thing is done. >> abby, some of the house republicans were advocating for negotiations on the debt cei

i just want to go back to something that david axelrod said, the mishmash of politics.re's going to be more mash than mish here. but i spoke to a source -- >> which is worse? >> i'm not sure. we will see. but i spoke to a source very familiar with how the national archives has worked with situations like this in the past. and this is not a political person. this is a professional person. and they pointed out, you know what? the reality is, this happens. former high level officials i know, a former president of the united states, a former director of the cia, who i've known for years, have told me they have found something in their homes afterwards. it can be an honest mistake. so, you know, to elliott's point, what was the intent? to -- you know, there does not seem to be obstruction here. they couldn't have been more cooperative. i am told that if there was not the mar-a-lago documents situation that the national archives might very well not have referred this to the justice department. but they felt they had to simply because of what was going on with donald trump. >>

back with david axelrod, nia-malika henderson, charlie dent and mondaire jones.t that the former president is backing away, some have suggested the former president should do more for mccarthy. how do you see it? >> well, as maybe more of a traditionalist. i believe that house leadership election is an election among the house members. this should be where the debate. presidents of the united states, and especially former presidents of the united states, should not be involved in that selection process. you would have never seen either the bushes or reagan or barack obama or bill clinton intervene in a house leadership election. all they can do is make enemies. i think this is a terrible precedent. plus, if you were relying on trump to become the next speaker, he is going to own you in the next congress. that's the mistake they're making. >> but clearly, kevin mccarthy has allayed, desperately tried to allay himself with trump. even after condemning him for the january 6th insurrection, he quickly reversed himself. >> to the point of now being referred to the eth

here to talk about it with two veterans in political crisis management, former top obama adviser, david axelrodr commentator, alyssa farah griffin, who served as the white house director of communication in the previous administration. david, how do you think the biden administration will deal with a huge microscope on his family by the republican-led house? >> i think that they had some time to think about it because republicans have been settled about the fact that this would be an area of inquiry. i think... look, i am old enough to remember other siblings, billy carter and roger clinton and others, who created an embarrassment for their presidential sibling, but if you can't prove a quid rpo quo... if influence peddling's only influence peddling if you have influence and will get, if there's no evidence of influence being wielded, it's embarrassing. 'some evidence that they're using his name for their own advantage but not necessarily getting much result in terms of what the government does. i think that's where the rubber hits the road. >> alyssa, how do you see this house investigation? >

and cnn senior political commentator david axelrod, former adviser for obama.let's start about, legally, is this helping the deal? >> potentially, a big deal, both for biden and trump. now, there is a lot we need to know, anderson. and the details matter here. there could be a lot of differences between the two scenarios. most importantly, joe biden no? what was the purpose? how did these documents get there? how many were there? were they co-operative, or where they obstructive? on paper, those could make the difference between something that is criminal or not criminal, but we don't live on paper, nor do prosecutors. and we have to look at this, and i look at this through a political lens, and reality lens, which is he is merrick garland, who ultimately is going to have the say here. who is known for nothing more than -- nothing if not being a verse to politics. he now wants nothing that appears to be political. is he going to give his own boss, the person who put him in the position as attorney general, a pass? and at the same time, bring a criminal charge a

"outfront" next is david axelrod. you hear phil's reporting. you think that this time could be different that, there truly could be a default for the u.s.? >> well, if you witnessed the antics on the floor during that election for speaker, it does give you cause for concern because a very, very vocal, very right sort of nealist group had quite a bit of sway and they exacted commitments from kevin mccarthy in exchange for their support. on the other hand, the reason they had sway was because his margin is so small. remember, back in 2011 when you started covering this story, erin, the house majority was at an all-time high for republicans. 242 seats. this is now 222. and there is a cadre of more moderate sort of center-right republicans who understand how irresponsible this would be. you could, for example, have a discharge petition on the floor of the house with republicans and democrats to discharge a debt ceiling increase. there's more maneuverability here. but there's no doubt that you've got people who are willing to play with fire here. >>

david axelrod came out and said he was mr. mcgoo wondering around the stage.where he is and he shouldn't be doing this. something to that effect. then after the midterms he's like superman, right? and now, all of a sudden he's going to run again. after everyone said there is no way he's going to run again. so now, all the way down, right? so i think we have a few more of these cycles to go before 2024 but as you were saying, we were talking about this at the break, if they don't have somebody else to be their 2024 candidate, they probably will find a way to rally back around to joe if they think he's the only one who can do it. >> greg: just got to pump him full of drugs. >> it works. his performance the day after the election was one of the great wonders of modern american medicine. [laughter] >> greg: i want what he's having. all right. up next, the freest state in the nation calls out nhl discrimination. and my type 2 diabetes means i'm also a target. we are targets too. millions have chronic kidney disease and 90% don't know they have it. so ask for your k

to go back to what our colleague david axelrod up in new york so perfectly said, when is somebody goingto go to kevin mccarthy saying is, "dude, they are just not that into you. and so there a point that some folks may not want kevin mccarthy. >> and yet, there is a point that this has not happened in a century, and when it happened in 1923, the speaker ultimately was elected. >> that has gone to nine ballots, and that has not been lost on kevin mccarthy. and he said that the candidate who had the most votes became the speaker in the ninth round, and this is why they plan to grind it out going forward. the republicans who are part of the opposition group are all aligning themselves behind jim jordan behind the pleas to support kevin mccarthy, and eight republicans supporting congressman jordan and we expect that number to grow to 19. now, what is going to happen on the third ballot, and that is the third question, and as long as kevin mccarthy is in this race, and no viable alternative is going to emerge, and this is the reality on the house floor, and there are people who are not going

david axelrod, i keep asking the same question. what is the next step? >> they keep doing the same thing. >> exactly. >> i just think that at some point, as i said earlier, there are people, responsible people supporting mccarthy who are going to assess the situation, and they're going to go to him and say, listen, we love you. it may not be fair, but you're not going to get there. we need to find somebody who possibly can because -- >> you're saying responsible people in congress -- >> in his caucus, in his caucus who are supporting him. as charlie and alyssa said earlier, i don't see the group that's opposing him relenting. the nihilists, as jonah called them, have less inclination to compromise in the inference of the institution than mccarthy's group. i don't believe people are -- mccarthy said we'll go a record number which is 1 00 and whatevr ballots. nobody is going to tolerate that. at some point he's going to have to stand aside, not because he wants to, but because others demand that he do. >> at some point, this isn't about kevin mccarthy anym

. >> david axelrod called the white house handling of this situation, the white house now, to use his word, suboptimal. others have put it more bluntly, raising more direct questions about transparency, including cnn's phil mattingly. how is the white house reacting to the appointment of a special counsel. >> officially the white house counsel says they believe the investigation will have full cooperation from white house officials and biden's attorneys. and it will show that in the end this was a mistake, an inadvertent mistake at that. when the attorney general made this appointment today, something white house officials were not aware of in advance, he detailed a timeline and underscored the fact when the president first talked about the classified documents earlier this week, he omitted a second set of documents we discovered last night. and they knew about them. take a listen. >> the review was underway when you guys gave the detailed statement about the first set of documents. the review was underway when the president spoke about the first set of documents. you're now saying yo

[indiscernible] karine: i know david axelrod and i was part of his program and i respect him and goto work with him with the obama-biden administration. i'm not going to make judgments on that and he is allowed to share what he thinks. but i will say this and i'm going to be very careful and prudent here and we take classified information and classified documents very seriously and the president's team is fully cooperating with the current legal process. i'm not going to say anything more. i just answered your question. i literally just answered your question. i don't have anything to preview about what he is going to be doing, he is going to being leaving camp david and going to wilmington, delaware. reporter: going to next week -- [indiscernible] why the focus on those three places next week? karine: i'm not going to get ahead of the president. he will lay out the travels and why he wanted to highlight. the bipartisan members and bipartisan infrastructure legislation in kentucky in the beginning of the year which was a bridge in kentucky that was really important in the region and

former obama adviser david axelrod calls it a huge gift to trump. what's your take? >> yeah. think they're right. it's a huge gift. so, there's the legal side and there's the political side. the legal side will be -- the legal side can do what it wants. they'll be fair. they'll go through, you know, the donald trump thing, the joe biden thing, and go after it the right way. politically, basically this is taken out, i think, almost any ability for democrats to go after the former president on this issue. still -- there is still a january 6th thing that happened, which i think is important to keep in mind. and it's really -- the other thing is that i think one of the biggest problems has been the continuing revelation of new documents. and they have not done a good job of putting together how that happened. did they happen upon it? and i think politically it's pretty bad. >> yeah, when they released the first statement talking about the batch in november, it failed to mention the second batch that was found in december. so, then reporters found out about it. they released anoth

now, lester david axelrod, former senior advisor to president obama and emma senior political commentator the point, you bet he will come back. but trumps reach on the platforms is huge. on his current social media platform, that he is part of, 5 million followers but facebook was 34,000,020 3 million on instagram, which are the two getting reinstated, if you want to take advantage of that in the coming weeks. how significant is this decision at the time and he is the only declared candidate in 2024? >> i think it is significant because the tools he's used very effectively in the past. to raise large amounts of money and i think the trump campaign sergeant 2016, proved themselves to be very effective at communicating with their basic support is largely through facebook. many of whom they cannot communicate with through truth social. these people are not on truth social.one limitation will be to work to his deal on truth socially is a contract with funders of social that you know, prescribe how he can appear in other platforms. that is something you have to work out but as a political matt

i think david axelrod and i were talking about this before. i think as soon as this is over and tomorrow they look forward to the hunter biden laptop investigations, the border investigations, the mayorkas impeachment i think this is all ancient history and the republican family is back together again. this is my opinion, one man's opinion. i think they move quickly and there will be a crisis come august when you've to get a debt ceiling. that's going to require real cooperation and i think will require democrats to get it through. >> the republican family sees like the borges right now. >> the idea of holding flat the defense spending, which, you know, look, we're in the middle of a war. we've given away a lot of military equipment to a country -- i've heard some grumbling about the idea we would agree to right now not increase defense spending. >> that'll come up in the budget. that's the '24 budget because the appropriations process is done. they're nauticaing money from this year. presumably budgeting, and i'm not sure hal rogers and the o

. >> now in our last hour, cnn david axelrod, a former top white house advisor, who worked alongside the biden and obama administration, called the handling of the situation, they use his words, sub optimal. others but a more bluntly, raising more dark austin's about transparency, including phil mattingly, who joins us now. how has the white house reacted to the appointment of special counsel? >> anderson, officially, the white house counsel says they believe that this investigation will a, have full cooperation for white house officials and biden's attorneys and it will also show that in the end, this was in their words, a mistake, an inadvertent one at that. however the attorney general made a supplement today so that white house officials were not aware of any events and he detailed timelines that none of us were aware of and underscore the fact that when the president first talked about the classified documents earlier this week, he committed a second set of documents we discovered last night. they knew about them, take a listen. >> the review was underway when you guys made a st

. >> but the math is the math, and whether it is hearn or trump or vote for david axelrod. >> not more can be given, but what granularity the negotiations are taken. >> and what you are reduced to writing and the debt ceiling and the appropriations bills and how far in the weeds, and how many people are on the propes bills. >> and the fiscal issues are the paramount to him and the negotiations. >> and so that may be to take some time, and we are willing to -- and the cardinals have not been appointed and the app appropriations chairs have not been given out, and the subcommittees are tough to do, and so it is hard. >> and the matt gaetz' tweet, if chip roy comes out with some good faith, and you go from 211 to 212 and 213 and you are that close, boy, i tell you to have that attitude when you have got everybody but five people in your conference or six people who want to do something, that is a, that is quite a thing. i would think some pressure brought to bear. >> he is not changing. and the question that he had -- >> let me just ask, because manu had a chance to speak to mccarthy, and

even old political hands like david axelrod seem drawn to this allegedly of a legend as political messiah. he appeared on axelrod's podcast and was asked about his friendship with kanye west. >> well, you know, we aren't friends as much as we used to be, because i honestly think because we publicly disagree on his running for office, his supporting trump, i think it became too much for us to sustain our friendship honestly. >> so he's the most i mean, intolerant person either. this is the typical liberal. they claim to be so tolerant and open. aren't we woke? aren't we? in the end, they're snobs. if you don't agree with them, they want no party. i just don't like the idea that you infringe rights over political differences. that's not the way america works and certainly not a leader. but, you know, the greatest obstacle to legend ever being president or pursuing politics can really be described in two words. chrissy teigen, can you imagine this woman as first lady? >> i think it's possible to be really angry all the time. >> if there was one word, you would help, particularly women use mo

now you have this political story and potentially legal story which is why david axelrod, he was barack obama's side man, wow, you people have screwed this up. >> on this particular story, they just don't look good. the essence of crisis communications is figure out where the story is going, get there as quickly as possible, get there as thoroughly as possible, but, you know, the thing i don't understand, frankly, if they found these documents on november 2nd, why has it taken so long to search the other properties? >> it's one of many key questions anyway. >> yeah. >> again, this is supposed to be team adult. not just president biden but the team that has been with him for decades, many of them, are supposed to be the people that understand how government works and crises work and the gravity of classified materials. >> you talk about the contrast they wanted to make with team trump, some of that compass competency. a lot was transparency. biden always talks about himself as somebody who shoots straight from the shoulder and in this case we had multiple days in a drip, drip, drip and m

i've taken over as the new director on the institute of politics for david axelrod. i previously served on the board of the iop, and before that in my previous life, i've done a lot of things in politics, including representing north dakota in the senate and serving as north dakota's tax commissioner, and north dakota's attorney general. and so i just want to tell you how grateful i am for this opportunity and how grateful i am for all of you who attend programs like this, because it takes a lot of effort for the iop to put them on, and we are so grateful for people like the former secretary of state mike pompeo who are willing to come in and engage students. today's event is a conversation between former secretary of state mike pompeo and the iop executive director. before one of our students formally introduces our guest, have to do all the housekeeping stuff. i want to mention -- mention a couple of upcoming events at the iop. on thursday, january 19, federal reserve vice chairman will be in conversation with a journalist for a conversation on inflation and the ec

. >> let me follow up with david a axelrod, this isn't going away anytime soon. how should the biden administration manage this going forward? >> i think now they just have to fully cooperate with the special counsel, and i think they're going to be relatively -- it's interesting to watch what's going on right now because clearly there's a bunch of conversations between the white house and reporters about the president's frustration about the chaotic end of his vice president and how the packing happened and so on. when these things happen, there's always attention between the lawyers whose job it is to represent his legal interests and the political and communications people whose job it is to handle the sort of public elements of it. i'm sure they were counseling let's move quickly, let's get this story out, let's get it out in full. but the lawyers are saying, we don't have it all yet. let's be, you know, circumspect about it, and right now, and andy can speak to this, i imagine his personal lawyers are saying, listen, this may have been an innocent mistake, p