jean chatzky, finish rich dotcom founder david bach and carmen wong ulrich. from this, david, seems to be you have to be a little bit creative. you have a budget but you have to have a certain attitude. >> they're living rich. it's not just the money. when you look at 12 people in the family, by giving serious, as you say, they have to follow where the money was going. and they had to have a plan. and i think you don't have to wait to have 12 kids to have a plan. if you can do it with 12 people you can do it with two people. >> jean, what are the key components to a budget breaker? >> essentially it's a pie chart and you've got 35% of your money that goes for housing. 25% for daily living, 15% for transportation, 15% to repay your other debts like your student loans and your credit cards, and 10% for long-term savings. and my rule is that that 10% is set in stone. you can borrow from any other category to feed any of the others. >> carmen, in the housing, what's included in that? >> what's really important to know about the housing, this is your most importan