objective reality historically speaking in terms of the battlefield and we know this because david ben gurion tells us so in his diary is that every stage of the war in one thousand nine hundred eight the israeli troops outnumbered the combined forces of the arab armies which were under disarray various commands and far less armed and poor and much more poorly trained and of course the outcome reflected that reality in the outcome was the mass the population of palestine and the israeli conquering of the vast majority of palestine as well so i'd object to the characterization of israel as an underdog even from from that state from that stage and lebanon of course you know. as it was mentioned sure only wanted to try to shape the reality in lebanon by installing a government there and while the syrians and the iranians may have all had their desires you know the key factor there is that lebanon is an intensely complicated place when it comes to its domestic politics and that had as much to do with the outcome there as anything else as much as outside intervention but at the end of the day even

and i remember what the late ben gurion that i had the privilege privilege --. c-span: david bing gurian. >> guest: david bing gurian our first prime minister when i was a young officer. he likes me very much. he used to invite me and talk to me and i remember that he told me the greek saying that said, to dare is to succeed. the story of our people and the land of israel is a story of daring. it's a story of daring. that is the story. and without daring, i don't think we could have achieved anything there. right so why do people like to write the word ruthless when they talk about ariel sharon? >> guest: maybe i should use discretion but i learned that once you believe in something you have to fight for it. that is how i was taught at home and our home never anybody was accepted and you know without being checked in so long. my parents used to say always, never accept anything, never take anything for granted. check it. if you accept that, it's along the line that you believe, back and support it. if not, fight it. that is how i do and maybe i have the strength to struggle f

david ben-gurion, golden mayer, menachem begin, itzhak rabin, the list goes on. and you, mr.dent, you all from anthing in common outside observer's perspective. despite your political differences, it was that you knew in your bones what one israeli prime minister told me over 35 years ago. on thewas opining difficulty israel faced around -- surrounded by hostile neighbors at the time. he looked at me and said, senator, do not worry. we jews have a secret weapon in our struggle in the region. we have nowhere else to go. realization, it seems to yours what energized entire generation of leadership. i believe that is one of the reasons why sharon and so many others fought so hard their whole lives. prime minister sharon was not only loved by the jewish people, , but henly loved them loved the land of israel. of it, but theea actual land itself. born on a farm about to be buried on a farm or ranch. i remember one of the meetings i had with him, it was a somewhat heated -- it was somewhat heated and he had his maps. he spread them out in his office again and i somewhat irreverentl

i did not know david ben gurion, but i knew all but one -- every prime minister since that time.e minister sharon are part of one of the most remarkable founding generations in the history not of this nation, but of any nation. historians will look back and say, but for -- but for -- the rare and unique men and women at that moment, but for that it's hard to see how we'd be standing here on this day -- leaders like david ben gurion, golda meir, menachem begin, yitzhak rabin, the list goes on, and you, mr. president, you all had one thing in common from an outside observer's perspective, despite your political differences, it was that you knew in your bones, as one israeli prime minister told me over 35 years ago when i was opining of the difficulty israel faced surrounded by hostile neighbors at the time, looked at me and said, senator, don't worry. we jews have a secret weapon in our struggle in the region. we have nowhere else to go. that realization, it seems to me, is what energized your entire generation of leadership. i believe that's one of the reasons why arik sharon and