and i wanted to ask joe, you say the people -- i think you said that people have long -- david bernard, by the way, tax analyst. people have long supported the idea of progressive taxation as being fair, i think you said. but isn't it true that people support the idea of progressive taxation at income levels above what they make? that it's like oh, sure, progressive taxation as long as it's kicking at more than what i make, and whether i make $10,000 or $100,000 or a million dollars, with the exception of len, who apparently does not mind paying higher taxes right now. but most people would say yeah, progressive taxation is great, as long as it's not me. which then doesn't it turn it into a big redistribution mechanism? >> don't tax me, tax that man behind the tree. >> right. >> so you may be all for taxes as long as it's not me. >> the nasty way to put that is it's all about endy, and that you're going after these guys in a punitive way. the less nasty interpretation is everybody has a self-interest bias. and so sure, on balance, i'd like to keep my money. >> right. you'd rather keep