david cay johnson, you've been writing about this for a long time. why does trump trump? why can't he stop doing this? >> well, because to donald other people are simply items, and objects. they're not human beings. donald is entirely transactional. whatever gets donald what he wants, he will do. there's no more coral to donald trump. not paying bills, attacking somebody as terrible whom you said just recently was wonderful he's done this all his life. you can be his friend today, his enemy next week. it all depends on the moment. >> he thought nothing well of barack obama until barack obama was nice to him then he thought barack obama was great. inside of trump world, there's the rumors that there are two camps, there's bannon world, which still shocks me someone like bannon could be near the white house, but he is. and pence world. do either of those camps feel concerned about donald trump's inability to control himself? >> for now the relationship between the bannon camp and the previous camp, the populists and the mainstream, seems to be functional based on my reporti

. >> david cay johnson, them just saying that -- the only fact we have on the table is the filing for the foundation with those two trump sons' name on it so i don't understand how them saying "we didn't do it" gets them out of hot water here. >> this is a tactic you'll see throughout the trump presidency. when i saw this initially i thought oh, this is from the onion, it can't be true, even the trumps are not that crass and then i ran down the documents about it. what you're seeing here now is well, we were just discussing this well, why were you even discussing something like that? paicularly when donald trump complaining about what he called pay for play. this is blatantly pay for play and it is part of donald trump's utter contempt that he expressed throughout the campaign for constitutional government. if you could get donald trump on your show and ask him what does the second article of the constitution say, he wouldn't be able to tell you. >> throughout the campaign, to your very point, david cay johnson, donald trump attack clinton foundation for hillary clinton selling access