david cullkullen has served as chief strategist, former lieutenant colonel in the australian army, david good to have you with us. you've argued that dealing with i.s.i.l. as a counterterrorism effort is a mistake that it needs to be dealt with more as a war with an enemy state. how would that work if i.s.i.l. isn't a conventional army? >> on the ground in iraq and syria it very much is a conventional army. it has hundreds of tanks, uses suicide bombers much as a conventional army uses artillery and in a conventional way. what i have argued is it operates in three levels, within iraq and syria we are very much dealing with a state like adversary that needs to be targeted as a state. but of course as we have just seen in paris there are a couple of other levels as well. there are the external i.s.i.s. provinces, in a variety of places globally and it is there is also the network of cells and underground groups as we've seen in europe. so it is not just a state like adversary but also not a terrorist group. it is a hybrid adversary. >> has the u.s. gradualist approach, limited air power a